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There is minimal downside to switching to open models

marble.onl

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Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#181

Post by hypfer »

reacharavindh wrote: post #180

It was easy to be a rebel and use Linux when it was clearly competent, but needed hacks and extra elbow grease to get it polished for use. IME, the open models are “not there yet” in terms of capability or operational needs. Sure, GLM5.2 looks competent, but I will only be able to get it to run that competent if I had a huge cluster of GPUs.. if I am accessing an open model via hosted API, I might as well run a close…

> if I am accessing an open model via hosted API, I might as well run a closed model via hosted API.

uh.. no?

The whole thing is that it cannot be enshittified, because there's not just a single party having control over it.

As it has happened, is happening and will happen.

With open weights, you cannot easily be rugpulled or locked out or any of that stuff. If the corp attempts that, someone else with an server farm will gladly take you as a customer with absolutely 0 changes to your workflow other than swapping out the API URL + Key.

You'll be talking to the same model with the same personality and same knowledge.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#183

Post by avadodin »

himata4113 wrote: post #130
coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? What gets me the most is that they claim that the model should follow the https://www.anthropic.com/constitution and they claim that it's embedded into the model. However, syste…

These companies are so good at selling their product's likely incompetence as possibly intentional subversion.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#184

Post by flexagoon »

Animats wrote: post #125

OK, now what? Someone offers open models as a service? That's basically a time-sharing computing business - people at terminals sharing remote computing resources. If you buy your own H100 it will be idle while you're typing or reading or thinking. So sharing makes sense. But it doesn't have to be an "AI company". It's just a compute service. The companies that offer web hosting could get into this.

> The companies that offer web hosting could get into this.

They already do. DigitalOcean is one of the providers on OpenRouter, for example

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#185

Post by flexagoon »

causality0 wrote: post #25

I know open models have gotten quite good in many tasks such as coding or composition, but are there any that can access the internet and retrieve data like ChatGPT, Claude, etc can? I do have to admit I have recently begun wishing I could pay five dollars a month for a "just answer the fucking question" plan that would give me results without the guardrails and without the constant simpering and ego-stroking. I keep…

There are tons of existing Skills/MCPs for Google/Kagi/whatever search, and making your own is trivial. I gave DeepSeek in Pi a link to Kagi API docs and asked it to add a web search skill, and it did that easily.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#186

Post by codedokode »

coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

Not only it requires a minimum payment of 39 euro, it doesn't accept cryptocurrency althogh that can be worked around by buying a prepaid virtual card for crypto.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#187

Post by dminik »

himata4113 wrote: post #130
coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? What gets me the most is that they claim that the model should follow the https://www.anthropic.com/constitution and they claim that it's embedded into the model. However, syste…

Yeah, it was funny seeing a bunch of people going like "Anthropic is fighting for privacy" meanwhile I'm like "Uhh, what about the other 8 billion people?"

On second thought, it's not funny.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#188

Post by hypfer »

itake wrote: post #48
CJefferson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big advantage I’ve found — people get attached to models (including me). With open models if you find one that works perfectly for you but the next version doesn’t, you can run the old one forever (or someone will for you)

But… the models will fall behind. As libraries and languages and tool calling updates or the world knowledge changes, the models decay. Personally, I don’t like the change, but it’s just how technology works so I’d rather move with the flow than try to stick my foot down and freeze time.

> But… the models will fall behind.

Yes but why does that matter? If I am happy with its capabilities now, I will continue being happy with its capabilities in the future.

Yes, it cannot do the newest magic shit, but why does that matter? It can still do everything that existed up until that point, which is _a lot_.

Eventually, you might also need something new, but it's not like the world shifts over all problems that exist from to and any tech for problems suddenly becomes obsolete?

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#189

Post by [deleted] »

t-3 wrote: post #170
cpursley wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US has arrested many people for speech, and even made charges stick many time. A famous historical example is charging Eugene Debs (and many others) with sedition for opposing WWI and the draft. There was at least one case of being arrested for political social media posts, already linked in adjacent threads. Threats of violence or even sufficiently harsh language to cause fear-for-life can be a crime. "Revenge p…

[deleted]

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#190

Post by root-parent »

coffinbirth wrote: post #70

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-…

Crimes does not even starts to describe it:

"AI-assisted targeting in the Gaza Strip" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_G...

"Palantir allegedly enables Israel's AI targeting in Gaza, raising concerns over war crimes" - https://www.business-humanrights.org/de/neuste-meldungen/pal...

"What The Wounds Are Telling Us" - https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestin...

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