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There is minimal downside to switching to open models

marble.onl

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Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#151

Post by alfiedotwtf »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #43
taytus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At current prices, and considering these OS Models' performance, investing in local inference sounds like a bad idea.

Current prices are insane but at this point I'm starting to feel like it's an existential issue. I'm not a US citizen. At any point the USA could come up with some arbitrary export controls. Not having a computer capable of running at least Qwen is starting to actually seem risky to me. At least it's going to be usable as a very high end gaming PC.

> At any point the USA could come up with some arbitrary export controls

lol his already happened with Fable!

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#152

Post by uberex »

bnj wrote: post #41

I’ve been wanting to get better acquainted with local inference but I don’t have the hardware, which has made me think about something I haven’t seen discussed, which is local collaboratives. The economics makes it seem like a group of people joining together to run good hardware and an open model might make sense, but I haven’t seen anything like this mentioned. Have I been missing it? I think it would be pretty nea…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48524387

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#153

Post by intothemild »

realusername wrote: post #39
kgeist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every new proprietary model is "groundbreaking" and "look, it just solved task X that no other model could solve," only to be referred to as "that crappy previous-generation model" a month later. So yeah, I'm totally fine using Kimi-2.7, GLM-5.2 or Deepseek-v4. I think we've already hit the ceiling and most improvements now seem to be from harness improvements and slightly better RL to improve reasoning/tool calling.

There's also a lot of benchmark trickery going on, it's becoming harder to see how the latest models really improved. The top models also seem to have inconsistent performance depending on the time of day and how far we are from the next release.

Since I started running my own inference server, I've had zero degradation that I didn't do myself. Basically the only time I see it get worse is if I drop one of the quants.

Which is what I suspect the providers are doing to fit more inference on the same amount of hardware over time.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#154

Post by throwaway27448 »

lysium wrote: post #124
leptons wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and US citizens don't seem to care I think maybe you haven't been paying attention. Most of us do care. Trump's approval rating is pretty low at 36%, and his disapproval rating is high. Just because he's still causing chaos doesn't mean the majority of us don't care about it. There's just no legal way to remove him, and his cronies simply won't do it - there's not enough votes in congress or he would have been gone…

I understand your point, however I don’t buy „there's just no legal way to remove him“. With so low ratings where are the daily protests against such type of government? Surely, nationwide daily protests would make elected officials reconsider their positions, given an upcoming midterm election, while there still is one. Don’t get me wrong, I know the thousands reasons why you won’t join a protest, I’m „guilty“ mysel…

> Surely, nationwide daily protests would make elected officials reconsider their positions, given an upcoming midterm election, while there still is one.

Hah. When was the last time a non-violent protest yielded some kind of result by itself? Certainly never in american history.

Anyway, there are daily protests. They just aren't covered by the media. Hell, the protests for palestine never stopped... the media just never wanted to cover them.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#155

Post by throwaway27448 »

rob74 wrote: post #138
lysium wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point, however I don’t buy „there's just no legal way to remove him“. With so low ratings where are the daily protests against such type of government? Surely, nationwide daily protests would make elected officials reconsider their positions, given an upcoming midterm election, while there still is one. Don’t get me wrong, I know the thousands reasons why you won’t join a protest, I’m „guilty“ mysel…

Then again, nationwide daily protests would give the Trump administration an excuse to send ICE / the army / whoever else they can send to the cities where the protests take place (I guess they would be mostly blue-leaning ones) to "restore order", and at the same time lay the groundwork for influencing the November elections. But the turnout at the periodic nationwide "No Kings" protests has been very good, and they…

You'd think a "no oligarchs" protest would be a little more useful given that we aren't likely to revert to a monarchy any time soon.

checks notes what's this? The protests were organized by oligarchic lackeys? Hmm

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#156

Post by 59nadir »

moomoo11 wrote: post #69
julianlam wrote: post #6

I think it's interesting that people write off open weight models because they're "a few months behind" proprietary models. I know LLMs move at the speed of light (especially these past few quarters), but if Opus and GPT "a few months ago" were really like open weight models, then there's really no reason to not switch, especially for those who were using these models a few months ago. Your codebase didn't change, so…

ok but your competition using the latest models has an advantage not all of us are doing noob shit lol

Heh, if you're using LLMs heavily for work I think odds are pretty good you're doing pretty trivial stuff. It might not be trivial to you, but you're probably just not very good at this.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#157

Post by goodpoint »

solumunus wrote: post #104
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

The UK can arrest you for hate speech. You can disagree with that policy on free speech terms if you want, and that’s really a maximal free speech position. It’s a very strange position to hold if you’re claiming that the U.S. is better when it comes to free speech. The U.S. administration is engaged in active smear campaigns against anyone who speaks loudly against them, threatened to revoke licenses of media compan…

> The UK can arrest you for hate speech.

And that's a good thing.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#158

Post by throwaway27448 »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #147
leptons wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and US citizens don't seem to care I think maybe you haven't been paying attention. Most of us do care. Trump's approval rating is pretty low at 36%, and his disapproval rating is high. Just because he's still causing chaos doesn't mean the majority of us don't care about it. There's just no legal way to remove him, and his cronies simply won't do it - there's not enough votes in congress or he would have been gone…

A 36% approval rating is sky-high for a president that started a pointless immensely costly war after getting elected on a platform of "no more costly wars" and is in the process of negotiating an immensely unfavorable deal with Iran after getting elected on a platform of "Obama's deal with Iran was terrible, I could do much better". By contrast, Biden at the same point in his term was hovering around 39%, for the he…

It doesn't help that many of those "center-left" democrats (whatever that refers to) seem to be criticizing trump for letting iran off too easy, not you know starting a stupid war nobody in their right might would want, bombing a school, wasting american lives, driving up prices, risking the global economy, throwing lebanon under the bus... nope, he let iran off too easy. Cf cory booker

When the parties are both fucking stupid when it comes to issues that matter, the entire right/left spectrum goes out the window.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#159

Post by nxm »

solumunus wrote: post #104
kortilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?

The UK can arrest you for hate speech. You can disagree with that policy on free speech terms if you want, and that’s really a maximal free speech position. It’s a very strange position to hold if you’re claiming that the U.S. is better when it comes to free speech. The U.S. administration is engaged in active smear campaigns against anyone who speaks loudly against them, threatened to revoke licenses of media compan…

I as a individual won’t get arrested for speaking my mind, and that’s much more important than some legal battle around corporate media.

„ deployed the military in cities they don’t like for no other reason than intimidation of political rivals” That’s one perspective on simply trying to enforce laws.

Moreover, let’s not forget about how Biden government tried to silence Rogan.

Re: There is minimal downside to switching to open models

#160

Post by kergonath »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #139
Phlogi wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Data Privacy is not sufficient.

For what? Does the EU not want to spy on its citizens? That strikes me as... unlikely. Why not host in east asia? Or southeast asia? Or south america? Or africa? Then you avoid both the government with incentive to spy on you (assuming you live in the EU) and american companies.

> Does the EU not want to spy on its citizens?

You do not seem to understand what the EU is. It is not a country, it does not have a police or anything like the NSA.

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