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FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

arstechnica.com

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Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#61

Post by nfw2 »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #43
nfw2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's particularly frustrating about all this is that any conversation with the growing contingency of distrustful people has been made very difficult by what I would call poor, avoidable, and illiberal decisions made by the federal government during COVID. (TBF, decisions during a crisis are always hard.) Lab leak theory was dismissed and actively suppressed. Inflated claims were made a priori about absol…

Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g.…

I lived in Manhattan in April 2020 and specifically know doctors who worked in the ER at Mt. Sinai. I think the vaccine mandates, to the limited extent there were any, were not paternalistic in a way that was unreasonable.

I would not say shutting down all discussion about a topic (lab origin) that ends up getting vindicated is a minor scandal. It's something everyone observed that erodes trust at a national level.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#62

Post by dboreham »

JSR_FDED wrote: post #44

How much death and suffering does this guy have on his conscience? I’m so curious how someone goes from being a professor to a science denier? I simply can’t imagine that journey.

Also interesting that there can be a giant asshole running a federal agency into the ground and I've never heard of him until now. Gives some scale to the problem. I also wonder what else is going on in government that falls below the widely reportable threshold.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#63

Post by deepspace »

epistasis wrote: post #4

The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants is one of the biggest disasters of the current years. The very concept of merit has been destroyed and replaced with judgement calls on celebrity (necessary for leadership role) and subservience to the political whims of the last 15 minutes (and you had better switch in the next 15 minutes or you're out).

It is not a disaster. It is a part of carefully orchestrated attack on Western democracies by enemy states.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#64

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

nfw2 wrote: post #61
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g.…

I lived in Manhattan in April 2020 and specifically know doctors who worked in the ER at Mt. Sinai. I think the vaccine mandates, to the limited extent there were any, were not paternalistic in a way that was unreasonable. I would not say shutting down all discussion about a topic (lab origin) that ends up getting vindicated is a minor scandal. It's something everyone observed that erodes trust at a national level.

> I would not say shutting down all discussion about a topic (lab origin) that ends up getting vindicated is a minor scandal.

“Shutting down all discussion” - lol. I mean this is grossly hyperbolic. Were social media companies coordinating with the government to slow disinformation? Yes. Was it applied too broadly? Maybe. But describing it as “shutting down all discussion” is a disservice to people who don’t know as much as you and I do.

And yes, in the grand scheme of things, it is a minor scandal. Have you watched the news recently? Save your energy for issues that matter.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#65

Post by iririririr »

epistasis wrote: post #4

The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants is one of the biggest disasters of the current years. The very concept of merit has been destroyed and replaced with judgement calls on celebrity (necessary for leadership role) and subservience to the political whims of the last 15 minutes (and you had better switch in the next 15 minutes or you're out).

(i must preface that this block was 100% trying to extract payment, like it was documented some coubtries did even during covid, but)

even the lead researcher of mrna vaccines before covid said she would not consider mrna vaccines safes outside of the covid emergency. and this study focus on effectiveness, not side effects.

so while turning away from science for politics is as bad as pushing it irresponsible for commercialization.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#66

Post by nfw2 »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #64
nfw2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Manhattan in April 2020 and specifically know doctors who worked in the ER at Mt. Sinai. I think the vaccine mandates, to the limited extent there were any, were not paternalistic in a way that was unreasonable. I would not say shutting down all discussion about a topic (lab origin) that ends up getting vindicated is a minor scandal. It's something everyone observed that erodes trust at a national level.

> I would not say shutting down all discussion about a topic (lab origin) that ends up getting vindicated is a minor scandal. “Shutting down all discussion” - lol. I mean this is grossly hyperbolic. Were social media companies coordinating with the government to slow disinformation? Yes. Was it applied too broadly? Maybe. But describing it as “shutting down all discussion” is a disservice to people who don’t know as…

Harris lost by a couple percentage points in few key states. Perhaps the news you are talking about wouldn't be happening if trust in institutions hadn't fallen so low.

I don't think whataboutism is helpful here. I think the FDA was broadly well-intentioned, and this administration is not. But this article isn't about ICE.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#67

Post by ted_dunning »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24
epistasis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prasad, to the extent he had a reputation before, was for critiquing the scientific practice as inadequate, which would hope that he'd bring the idea of rigor to his stint at the FDA. Instead, we see quite the opposite: - This baffling Moderna decision, which is so bad that many in the industry assumed it was from a failed bribe solicitation - Linked in this article is the "truly evil" decision requiring sham brain s…

> Lied on his CV about being on a highly prestigious council You called this “minor CV fibbing” above. If he was lying about this when he applied for tenure, wouldn’t that be Cause?

This is usually modulated by whether the fib is about something "material".

In fact, he probably would have had the same decision with or without the claim which is the essence of "not material".

My own personal take is that the lying is crucial, however.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#68

Post by deathanatos »

jiddert8 wrote: post #58
chrsw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. Many people here in the US don't believe in science any more and they definitely think mRNA technology is some kind of conspiracy.

[dead]

The Covid vaccines have saved an estimated 14 million to 20 million lives.[1]

The trust was not eroded by scientists, it was eroded by politicians pushing lies. I'm still to this day hearing lies & misinformation repeated about the vaccines.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#69

Post by ted_dunning »

jiddert8 wrote: post #58
chrsw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. Many people here in the US don't believe in science any more and they definitely think mRNA technology is some kind of conspiracy.

[dead]

Pushing those vaccines saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#70

Post by ted_dunning »

willmadden wrote: post #56

Flu vaccines aren't immunizing vaccines. They protect against specific strains, and half the time they immunize against a strain that doesn't become widespread and do very little or nothing to protect you. They have side effects which vary widely in severity depending on the specific vaccine. This article has no data about why mRNA flu vaccines will improve these outcomes, and has no data about the risk/benefit ratio…

What do you mean by "immunizing vaccines"?

In the first sentence, you say that flu vaccines are not and in the second you admit they are.

Maybe you meant that their coverage is not comprehensive. If so, that's what you should say.

mRNA flu vaccines have substantial potential advantages in terms of the ability to target a wider spectrum of variants and faster time to manufacture.

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