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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

mooreds.com

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#61

Post by furyofantares »

caminante wrote: post #51
furyofantares wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking it at face value makes it good advice and interpreting it as CYA hedging makes it bad advice. My bet is the author intended the good advice they actually said rather than the bad faith guess to what they meant that makes it bad advice. And there are plenty of things that are your job, but you would like the boss in the loop on without actually making it their job. You say if it's your job then do it, and that'…

> The only place you're in disagreement is that you don't see any room for nuance when something is your job but worth notifying the boss about in advance. You read a different article. FTA: > ”Hey, boss, I am going to install action X, which should solve the XYZ problems we’ve been having. Will take care of this on Monday unless I hear differently from you.” The parent's point is that lighting a fuse and saying you'…

> The parent's point is that lighting a fuse and saying you'll do something when the fuse runs out regardless of the boss' approval in a situation where you want to run something by them...is career suicide.

It's not, if that action is a part of your job, something you COULD do just on your own but "you want a bit of reassurance or to let the boss know what you are up to".

It's not really a notification on a fuse, that's a framing you've put on it. It's giving sufficient advanced notice.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#62

Post by chrisra »

Stratoscope wrote: post #20

Hello $BOSS! I have a code change that is so vital to the survival of our company that: 1. It requires your immediate review. 2. If you fail to respond by Monday, I will push it to production. --- Can anyone suggest what is wrong here?

In general, the harder it is to undo and the broader the consequence, the more you need to check.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#63

Post by gacgacgac »

GMoromisato wrote: post #52
gacgacgac wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your rubric for successful? And does it shift if that state was the target of wars of aggression or embargoes?

My rubric is irrelevant--I promised I wouldn't try to argue against whatever countries got named. I'm just curious what people consider a successful communist country.

I think you can look at different lenses of success. Vietnam successfully defeated a much, much more powerful imperial force. They have fewer freedoms, and are still recovering from the generational damage dealt to them, and they are hardly without plenty of valid criticisms. But they've had successes.

China is a major global power. I think you'd have to accept that China is successful, even if that success doesn't reach every person. And I think it's fair to point at China and ask just how communist it really is. (Then again, I think it's fair to point at the US and ask how idealistically capitalist they are.)

Cuba has some of the highest literacy rates in the world, they have a developed medical care system with lower infant mortality, high vaccination rates, and they have developed their own effective vaccines for things like covid. They've eliminated measles. They enjoy a longer life expectancy than US citizens. And they've achieved those successes with an embargo that has made it difficult for Cuba to trade globally.

This is why I was probing for rubrics, because I think one can definitely find success in communist governments, and you'll also find corruption. And you'll find crime and war. And there's no clear story of "across all axes they are successful".

Would I rather live in any of these? It's complicated! I think there are very few countries right now that are primarily focused on the welfare of their people.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#64

Post by mooreds »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #46

This is an AWS (and other FAANG) tenet. It has to come with appropriate information, not just a date. I usually ask for a twisted "STAR" if this is presented to me. Give me context (who, what, where, when), the planned action in short (and other choices that were considered and why they were abandoned), and the result that the choice will have. If i have all these, i can quickly context switch, and ask follow ups if…

> It has to come with appropriate information, not just a date.

That's a great point. You need to give the manager enough info they can determine if it makes sense to intervene. Sometimes they have enough context that a date for a decision is all they need, other times you need to provide more details.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#65

Post by jdlshore »

crazygringo wrote: post #27

Do NOT do this with your manager. The key part of this article is: > When you have something you want to do and that you feel is in scope for your position, but you want a bit of reassurance or to let the boss know what you are up to, it’s common to reach out and ask them for permission. Don’t. Don’t ask for a yes. Instead, offer a chance to say no, but with a deadline. If something is not in scope for your responsib…

This is a very strident response, presented with a lot of confidence, and I think that confidence is unwarranted.

I haven’t read the article, so maybe it’s been covered, but here’s a simple way I usually “ask for no.” I send a message on Slack:

“Hey (name), I’m planning to (do a thing) on Wednesday. Let me know if you have concerns.”

It doesn’t come across as usurping authority, or sneaky, or any of the other very italicized things you’re worried about. It comes across as polite and confident.

I’m a VP and this is how I expect my managers to interact with me on major decisions that are within their purview (I don’t need to hear about minor decisions) and it’s also the culture I’m trying to create at the team contributor level as well. Ownership and autonomy, within well-defined guardrails.

See also Turn the Ship Around and its “I intend to” structure.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#66

Post by GMoromisato »

gacgacgac wrote: post #60
GMoromisato wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to disagree with the idea of the state redistributing wealth via taxes/benefits or even nationalized resources (e.g., mineral rights or FCC spectrum). Both have been features of US capitalism almost since the founding. But if you're saying the US is a successful communist country... well, I promised I wouldn't argue.

I'll argue -- socialist is not the same as communist. Norway is not a communist country (despite arguably being a socialist one).

I agree. Moreover, socialism and capitalism are not antithetical--they are orthogonal. Norway and the US have socialism (e.g., Social Security) and capitalism (e.g., people invest their capital to fund industry).

Socialism without capitalism is communism--the state owns everything.

Capitalism without socialism is anarchy: if you don't socialize a legal system, law enforcement, and national defense, then you don't have a country.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#67

Post by GMoromisato »

gacgacgac wrote: post #63
GMoromisato wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rubric is irrelevant--I promised I wouldn't try to argue against whatever countries got named. I'm just curious what people consider a successful communist country.

I think you can look at different lenses of success. Vietnam successfully defeated a much, much more powerful imperial force. They have fewer freedoms, and are still recovering from the generational damage dealt to them, and they are hardly without plenty of valid criticisms. But they've had successes. China is a major global power. I think you'd have to accept that China is successful , even if that success doesn't…

I think it's useful to distinguish between political system and economic system. The traditional communist system was to have both a one-party state and state ownership of the means of production.

Vietnam and China still have one-party states but have transitioned to market economies. The fact that there are Chinese billionaires implies that they are no longer communist.

Cuba is still a traditional communist country--mostly because of sanctions. But they would love to become a market economy.

North Korea is the other one with both a one-party state and autarkic control over the economy.

Would I want to live in any of these countries? Absolutely not. I would rather be a median American than a median Chinese or Vietnamese.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#68

Post by brandon272 »

icantevenhold wrote: post #11
slowcache wrote: post #2

This is great advice to become a pain in the ass that managers know they need to keep on a short leash. There's a big difference between "I'm going to put this into prod on tuesday unless you tell me otherwise" vs "I'm going to put a prototype together for review on Tuesday unless you tell me this is a waste of time"

Completely inverse to my lived experience. I have always used this method and my managers love me because they know I get important shit done without much supervision or needing dozens of planning meetings. It doesn’t even feel like there is any leash at all. Of course the company i work at isn’t extremely disfunctional and a growing startup, so once we move into enterprise territory it might change the culture and i…

Some people have a much better instinct for when and how to ask for permission than others, including when "asking for no" is the right move. It's a dance with nuance and it's hard to capture it as advice in an article.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#70

Post by Retric »

GMoromisato wrote: post #59
Retric wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re open to a wider discussion. Norway's and Alaska’s use of oil wealth to subsidize their population via state ownership of that wealth is very communist in nature. Ancient Rome’s huge grain dole similarly was quite communist in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_annonae America’s freeing its slave population is similarly redistribution of the means of production to the general population. Which seems…

I'm not going to disagree with the idea of the state redistributing wealth via taxes/benefits or even nationalized resources (e.g., mineral rights or FCC spectrum). Both have been features of US capitalism almost since the founding. But if you're saying the US is a successful communist country... well, I promised I wouldn't argue.

> I promise I wouldn’t argue

Fair, to be clear I wouldn’t actually call the US a communist country either. I would say it’s more communist than modern day China, granted that’s a low bar.

What’s IMO worth considering is just how much more communist it is today than in 1776. 22 million Americans work directly for the government (fed, state, local, post office etc), that rises significantly when you include research grants, government contractors, farm subsidies, etc. K-12 education, Qualified immunity (1967), banking laws, etc the government is both getting a stranglehold on the economy and continues extending its reach.

We are closer to nominally capitalist than I think anyone wants to admit and in ways both parties quietly agree with. That isn’t to say we need “smaller government” just understanding of what’s happening.

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