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Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

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Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#81

Post by SwellJoe »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #79
sscaryterry wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is a bit obtuse. It is a commonly accepted "fact" right now, outside the US, that the US is not to be trusted (right now), due to some orange guy, and his mates, manipulating markets, running their mouths, doing all kinds of criminal and/or infantile shit. I'd say there is quite a bit of evidence for this all around.

Hardly obtuse. It's good to be specific when making broad claims. The graft of Trump is a big problem, IMO, but the claim was larger than that, as being something about America's system of Law and Justice, and I don't see these as being completely busted (yet) by the Orange Man

It isn't completely busted, unless the Trump administration has a personal interest in overriding the law. As sometimes happens when some foreign power, or just a random politician in another nation, does something he doesn't like. Or, when Trump has a personal stake in some other outcome. Who wants to gamble that Trump won't decide to wreck your businesses, sabotage your defenses, or spy on European citizens? We now know most of the major tech companies won't object to information requests, and probably won't even reveal that they've given access to the US government. US citizens maybe still have some protections, but everyone else seems to be fair game.

Frankly, I'm surprised there's not more urgency on the part of Europeans to reduce dependence on US tech. I don't like it. I'm an American in tech. But, the US can't be trusted, at this time. And, given how irresponsible tech leadership has been, in kowtowing to Trump, I don't see how they can reasonably be trusted, either.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#82

Post by SilverSlash »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #55
nezuzen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data" I empathize with this but curious what would make any other country a better safehaven for your data? I personally like the EU's approach to data safeguards, but are there other locales/data protections you have in mind that would keep your data "safe".

Iceland and Switzerland are probably the best places to keep your data safe. I'd put Norway, Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands after that, though I don't have much specifics on how good they are at privacy these days.

lol the new "swiss banks". store all your dirty data in digital swiss lockers

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#84

Post by jimbokun »

SwellJoe wrote: post #81
SubiculumCode wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly obtuse. It's good to be specific when making broad claims. The graft of Trump is a big problem, IMO, but the claim was larger than that, as being something about America's system of Law and Justice, and I don't see these as being completely busted (yet) by the Orange Man

It isn't completely busted, unless the Trump administration has a personal interest in overriding the law. As sometimes happens when some foreign power, or just a random politician in another nation, does something he doesn't like. Or, when Trump has a personal stake in some other outcome. Who wants to gamble that Trump won't decide to wreck your businesses, sabotage your defenses, or spy on European citizens? We now…

It’s not clear whether Europe has the capability to compete with US tech right now.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#85

Post by sinuhe69 »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #43
digitaltrees wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of law exists in other countries in a way it does not in the US right now.

Can you give examples?

Searching and seizure of your laptops, including your personal phones without a probable cause or warrant.

Compel you to reveal your secrets, including your passwords by threatening to arrest and detain you without legal proceedings for an unspecified period.

Deny your basic human rights, particularly at the borders, especially if you aren’t a citizen.

And more.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#86

Post by hit8run »

soundworlds wrote: post #73
maxloh wrote: post #8

Other fully open LLMs include Allen AI's OLMo 3.1 and MBZUAI's K2 Think V2, both of which have released their full training pipelines and datasets. Nvidia Nemotron is also an open training source model, though a portion of its dataset remains proprietary. Quoting lambda's comment: > Note that the Nemotron models are generally stronger than Olmo and K2 Think V2 (according to Artificial Analysis benchmarks), and there…

Allen AI do not get enough love. They are doing GenAI how it should have always been done. In fact, if the frontier companies had taken their approach, it would have started much slower, but I think we would be far more advanced by 2035. Instead we have a majority of society that wants to see AI fail.

Care to elaborate on this?

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#87

Post by Danox »

8note wrote: post #29
dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

normal people dont really have the hardware to run local models

As time goes on, they’re almost certainly will be very capable local models in the long run we (general computer users) aren’t going back to the era of mainframe computing no matter how much OpenAI, Meta or Google would like us to.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#89

Post by OkWing99 »

nezuzen wrote: post #16
SwellJoe wrote: post #12

I like the idea, and it has become more pressing that everyone outside the US think about tech sovereignty because the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data, but the impression I get from Apertus is that it moves at the speed of a committee. I have no expectation they'll deliver a competitive model. At least, not competitive with current models. Maybe competitive with models a year ago (though they haven't…

"the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data" I empathize with this but curious what would make any other country a better safehaven for your data? I personally like the EU's approach to data safeguards, but are there other locales/data protections you have in mind that would keep your data "safe".

I think US is the only country that's asked to limit their frontier model access based on the Citizenship of the user.

Let's say Gemini gets to AGI by tomorrow, will my Google account access, or Gemini apps access and data be blocked if I'm not a US citizen? (Anthropic did it with a 5% better model).

If US is classifying the model access based on citizenship, that's similar to treating it as a Defense capability.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#90

Post by SwellJoe »

jimbokun wrote: post #84
SwellJoe wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't completely busted, unless the Trump administration has a personal interest in overriding the law. As sometimes happens when some foreign power, or just a random politician in another nation, does something he doesn't like. Or, when Trump has a personal stake in some other outcome. Who wants to gamble that Trump won't decide to wreck your businesses, sabotage your defenses, or spy on European citizens? We now…

It’s not clear whether Europe has the capability to compete with US tech right now.

It obviously does not. But, there is nothing preventing it. The US has given away all of our foreign scientists, if Europe wants them. All Europe has to do to take the lead in tech is ramp up research spending by an order of magnitude or two to match what the US used to spend (the US still outspends Europe on research, even after massive haphazard cuts and disruptions). Europe also has to welcome immigrants. Another thing many European countries have not always been great at, and some recently have become quite bad about. The regressive nationalist right is ascendant in many places, including some European countries.
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