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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#51

Post by caminante »

furyofantares wrote: post #45
caminante wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's just CYA hedging. If it's your job (per the "context"), then do it. When you ask this question, it's either A. escalating/DoA exception (not your authority) B. Or giving yourself an out if something goes wrong for your existing DoA.

Taking it at face value makes it good advice and interpreting it as CYA hedging makes it bad advice. My bet is the author intended the good advice they actually said rather than the bad faith guess to what they meant that makes it bad advice. And there are plenty of things that are your job, but you would like the boss in the loop on without actually making it their job. You say if it's your job then do it, and that'…

> The only place you're in disagreement is that you don't see any room for nuance when something is your job but worth notifying the boss about in advance.

You read a different article.

FTA:

> ”Hey, boss, I am going to install action X, which should solve the XYZ problems we’ve been having. Will take care of this on Monday unless I hear differently from you.”

The parent's point is that lighting a fuse and saying you'll do something when the fuse runs out regardless of the boss' approval in a situation where you want to run something by them...is career suicide.

FTA:

> When you have something you want to do and that you feel is in scope for your position, but you want a bit of reassurance or to let the boss know what you are up to, it’s common to reach out and ask them for permission. Don’t. Don’t ask for a yes. Instead, offer a chance to say no, but with a deadline.

The qualifiers of "needing reassurance" and "asking for permission" combined with a notification on a fuse is way different framing than "notifying the boss about it in advance."

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#52

Post by GMoromisato »

gacgacgac wrote: post #48
GMoromisato wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to hear an example of a successful communist state. You can even restrict it to a limited period in time (USSR 1959-1968 or something). I promise that I will not try to discredit your answer. I'm just curious what people think. But if you come back with "the communism I have in mind hasn't been tried yet" then I will definitely make fun of your answer.

What is your rubric for successful? And does it shift if that state was the target of wars of aggression or embargoes?

My rubric is irrelevant--I promised I wouldn't try to argue against whatever countries got named. I'm just curious what people consider a successful communist country.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#53

Post by corpoposter »

crazygringo wrote: post #27

Do NOT do this with your manager. The key part of this article is: > When you have something you want to do and that you feel is in scope for your position, but you want a bit of reassurance or to let the boss know what you are up to, it’s common to reach out and ask them for permission. Don’t. Don’t ask for a yes. Instead, offer a chance to say no, but with a deadline. If something is not in scope for your responsib…

> If something is not in scope for your responsibility, obviously you must ask for permission.

Agree, but this can often be blurry.

> If it's in some weird edge case where you "feel" it is "in scope for your position" but you "want a bit of reassurance", then pick a lane.

I disagree here. I think there are often cases where this really functions as an "FYI" and is helpful. You are not shifting responsibility to the other party, but do...

* CYA if they say they weren't informed

* Get an opportunity for feedback without stalling progress in the case that they don't respond

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#54

Post by Stevvo »

GMoromisato wrote: post #39
rho138 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*failed communist state In proper function, ownership is an essential identity of any government.

I would love to hear an example of a successful communist state. You can even restrict it to a limited period in time (USSR 1959-1968 or something). I promise that I will not try to discredit your answer. I'm just curious what people think. But if you come back with "the communism I have in mind hasn't been tried yet" then I will definitely make fun of your answer.

China claims to be building a successful communist state. The argument goes that you need to have wealth first before you can redistribute it, and China is currently in the wealth-building phase of achieving communism.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#55

Post by caminante »

waisbrot wrote: post #47
caminante wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's just CYA hedging. If it's your job (per the "context"), then do it. When you ask this question, it's either A. escalating/DoA exception (not your authority) B. Or giving yourself an out if something goes wrong for your existing DoA.

An easy example: you need 5 minutes of planned downtime (which is entirely within SLAs) to execute a major upgrade, but the system is also used by Sales for demos to major new clients. "We're going to take 5 minutes of downtime on Wednesday evening for an upgrade. Contact me ASAP if this is a problem for you." If you don't hear from the team, then it's OK to go.

You know the "no response" happens all the time.

OK. I'm your pointy haired boss Thursday morning.

> Hey, @waisbrot. You didn't mention anything in your note whether you got a response from the Sales team. I got a call from the VP Sales. He's pissed. You know they're at [big sales conference] and busy. The system outage impacted two Top 10 customer account demos. Why didn't you call me if you thought it was important or ask for an affirmative confirmation from the sales team before rolling out changes? Sorry, but I can't trust you. Bring all similar changes to me for approval from now on.

Of course there are routine things or items in your competency that allow for your boss to prioritize supervision elsewhere.

The prospect of going rogue, lighting a fuse, and then potentially setting off fireworks is the nuance being argued here by me and @slowcache.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#56

Post by roughly »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #7

Another great Life Pro Tip is "Never accept 'no' from someone who can't say 'yes'."

Learned this one dealing with bureaucracy at uni - and don’t leave someone’s office until you know where you’re going next. “I can’t do that” - no problem, who can, and where can I find them?

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#57

Post by nirui » 

    > "hey, boss, can we install action X?"
    > "Hey, boss, I am going to install action X."
They are literally the same thing to me.

The tone change don't really effect my decision path, both triggers "reviewing of the XYZ problem", a.k.a "why?". People who don't do that either trusts you a lot, or never worked professionally before and maybe about to learn a lesson from it.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#58

Post by Retric »

GMoromisato wrote: post #52
gacgacgac wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your rubric for successful? And does it shift if that state was the target of wars of aggression or embargoes?

My rubric is irrelevant--I promised I wouldn't try to argue against whatever countries got named. I'm just curious what people consider a successful communist country.

If you’re open to a wider discussion.

Norway's and Alaska’s use of oil wealth to subsidize their population via state ownership of that wealth is very communist in nature.

Ancient Rome’s huge grain dole similarly was quite communist in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_annonae

America’s freeing its slave population is similarly redistribution of the means of production to the general population. Which seems strange to modern ears, but the communist manifesto 1848 predates the US civil war 1861–1865.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#59

Post by GMoromisato »

Retric wrote: post #58
GMoromisato wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rubric is irrelevant--I promised I wouldn't try to argue against whatever countries got named. I'm just curious what people consider a successful communist country.

If you’re open to a wider discussion. Norway's and Alaska’s use of oil wealth to subsidize their population via state ownership of that wealth is very communist in nature. Ancient Rome’s huge grain dole similarly was quite communist in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_annonae America’s freeing its slave population is similarly redistribution of the means of production to the general population. Which seems…

I'm not going to disagree with the idea of the state redistributing wealth via taxes/benefits or even nationalized resources (e.g., mineral rights or FCC spectrum). Both have been features of US capitalism almost since the founding.

But if you're saying the US is a successful communist country... well, I promised I wouldn't argue.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#60

Post by gacgacgac »

GMoromisato wrote: post #59
Retric wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re open to a wider discussion. Norway's and Alaska’s use of oil wealth to subsidize their population via state ownership of that wealth is very communist in nature. Ancient Rome’s huge grain dole similarly was quite communist in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_annonae America’s freeing its slave population is similarly redistribution of the means of production to the general population. Which seems…

I'm not going to disagree with the idea of the state redistributing wealth via taxes/benefits or even nationalized resources (e.g., mineral rights or FCC spectrum). Both have been features of US capitalism almost since the founding. But if you're saying the US is a successful communist country... well, I promised I wouldn't argue.

I'll argue -- socialist is not the same as communist. Norway is not a communist country (despite arguably being a socialist one).
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