Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

underreacted.leaflet.pub

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 276 posts

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#11

Post by klodolph »

donw wrote: post #8
wren6991 wrote: post #4

> now let's try to apply the rules: > hanas* + (i)masu = hanasimasu (wrong!) I had to stare at this for a while to figure out why the author thought it was wrong. "si" is rendered as し on every IME keyboard I've ever used, but the author wants it to be written as "shi". I don't think this article is really simpler than just learning the table and letting your pattern recognition neural wetware kick in and do its thin…

Um... 話します is the correct conjugation for 話す, what am I missing here?

hanasimasu = 話します

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#12

Post by klodolph »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #9
plastic041 wrote: post #6

Categorizing Japanese verbs as -ru or -u requires more context. I prefer the term "group 2 verbs" to "-ru verbs." Group 2 verbs are verbs that end in -eru or -iru, not just -ru. Of course there are some exceptions, like kaeru, which ends in -eru but is actually a -u verb. Conjugation is easy: remove the final -ru and append -masu, -mashita, etc. "Group 1 verbs" (again, -u verbs) are verbs that are not group 2 verbs.…

there are more irregular verbs than just kuru and suru. iku and aru are also irregular, for example. Irregulars notwithstanding, the conjugation pattern is actually completely lossless if you just remember the imperative form (e.g. 着ろ kiro, 切れ kire) instead of the infinitive, which is lossy (e.g. 着る kiru, 切る kiru). Then there's no need to have to remember, "oh... is this -iru verb group 1 or group 2?"

They’re sometimes called “semi-irregular” because they are mostly regular with, like, one deviation. The list is not long and it is quick to memorize.

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#14

Post by laurieg »

Here's how I was taught verb conjugation.

First, we learnt verbs in the -masu form. Nomimasu, tabemasu and so on.

Then we learnt this song (to the tune of Clementine)

chi ri i tte mi ni bi nde kiite giite

It's a quick mneumonic to help you go from the polite verb to the "te-form" ending. I hummed it in my head while working out the conjugation before it became natural and "obvious".

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#15

Post by klodolph »

donw wrote: post #13
klodolph wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hanasimasu = 話します

I also still don't understand why the author thought this was wrong?

Because the author of the article hasn’t internalized that si is pronounced “shi”, is my guess.

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#18

Post by lmm »

donw wrote: post #8
wren6991 wrote: post #4

> now let's try to apply the rules: > hanas* + (i)masu = hanasimasu (wrong!) I had to stare at this for a while to figure out why the author thought it was wrong. "si" is rendered as し on every IME keyboard I've ever used, but the author wants it to be written as "shi". I don't think this article is really simpler than just learning the table and letting your pattern recognition neural wetware kick in and do its thin…

Um... 話します is the correct conjugation for 話す, what am I missing here?

The author is using an anglicised romaji system and evidently thinking in English, so they think writing 話します as "hanasimasu" is "wrong".

Re: Japanese verb conjugation the simple hard way

#19

Post by lmm »

If it's taking you this much effort to do the trivial conjugations (seriously, the whole page barely mentions the interesting ones 80% of the way down, and falls back on "yeah, you just have to memorize the patterns" for た/て forms), yeah, just memorise them. Language learning and exercise are the two things where I've found the programmer's instinct to "work smarter, not harder" works against you; you actually just have to put the time and effort in.
Post reply on HN