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Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

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Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#51

Post by conception »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

Google Edge Gallery is turn key for people and on the device most people chatgpt on. Just like with most Google Stuff “edge gallery” is maybe the worst name possible for “run AI on your phone”!

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#52

Post by cdata »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

If our strategy to avoid "slavery" involves "normal people" taking the local-vs-managed choice seriously, we have already lost.

This choice is made for us. The deciding factors will be convenience and economics.

My sense is that just like Web 2.0 SaaS we are destined for servitude.

A better strategy is to play an assymetrical game IMO. Don't let your would-be master write the rules by which you play.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#53

Post by sscaryterry »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #43
digitaltrees wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of law exists in other countries in a way it does not in the US right now.

Can you give examples?

Wow, this is a bit obtuse.

It is a commonly accepted "fact" right now, outside the US, that the US is not to be trusted (right now), due to some orange guy, and his mates, manipulating markets, running their mouths, doing all kinds of criminal and/or infantile shit.

I'd say there is quite a bit of evidence for this all around.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#54

Post by vcryan »

maxloh wrote: post #8

Other fully open LLMs include Allen AI's OLMo 3.1 and MBZUAI's K2 Think V2, both of which have released their full training pipelines and datasets. Nvidia Nemotron is also an open training source model, though a portion of its dataset remains proprietary. Quoting lambda's comment: > Note that the Nemotron models are generally stronger than Olmo and K2 Think V2 (according to Artificial Analysis benchmarks), and there…

Maybe I'll give Nemotron another try. Yesterday I used the latest one on OpenRouter and it was bad - worse than StepFun

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#55

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

nezuzen wrote: post #16
SwellJoe wrote: post #12

I like the idea, and it has become more pressing that everyone outside the US think about tech sovereignty because the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data, but the impression I get from Apertus is that it moves at the speed of a committee. I have no expectation they'll deliver a competitive model. At least, not competitive with current models. Maybe competitive with models a year ago (though they haven't…

"the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data" I empathize with this but curious what would make any other country a better safehaven for your data? I personally like the EU's approach to data safeguards, but are there other locales/data protections you have in mind that would keep your data "safe".

Iceland and Switzerland are probably the best places to keep your data safe. I'd put Norway, Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands after that, though I don't have much specifics on how good they are at privacy these days.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#57

Post by itkovian_ »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

You can’t run a closed llm locally. Strange to frame the dichotomy as between local and open. One begets the other.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#58

Post by brandensilva »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #43
digitaltrees wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of law exists in other countries in a way it does not in the US right now.

Can you give examples?

Illegal tariffs, executive usurping congress power of the purse, Noem funding herself and friends with a commercial from an unknown entity with tax payer money, people in ICE/FBI handing over undisclosed unaccounted money in brown bags, insider trading is rampant, using funds inappropriately to fly girlfriend places that isn't official business, illegally using private money to fund public projects, taking bribes from foreign nations like jets and such violating emulation clauses, passing no bid contracts to people you know, using the pardon power inappropriately to pardon crypto scammers and other white collar crimes, moving notorious Epstein related criminals to a low security prison without going through the courts, avoiding justice for sex crimes of the rich, using the DOJ as a political cudgel, and the list goes on.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#59

Post by bsder »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

> we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks.

Yep. I'm an old time Linux sysadmin, but I am COMPLETELY baffled as to what I can or cannot run on my 32GB R9700 with 128GB main CPU memory.

If I want something Claude or Codex like what do I use that would be useful? If I want a chat system, what do I use? Images--apparently ComfyUI for setup but after that what do I do?

I don't even mind spinning up something in the cloud for a bit, but I need to know how I'm going to get data up and down without racking up massive bandwidth charges.

I'd love to do some tinkering, but the field is moving so fast and so full of charlatans that cleaning the dross out is almost impossible.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#60

Post by anon373839 »

Vaslo wrote: post #38
anon373839 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China's distillation labs This notion that Chinese labs are merely distilling frontier models is quite an unwarranted slur. Those labs have published WAY more useful research than US labs on RL techniques, novel model architectures, training pipelines, etc. They have also hit intelligence-per-parameter densities that US labs have yet to attain. Apart from that, merely training a model on outputs from another model,…

I recently watched a video for one of these “Chinese Models” it kept insisting it was Claude when the user asked. Sorry, there’s no “slur” here but legit suspicion.

These anecdotes where someone gets the model to claim it is X model are meaningless. (Claude also has been known to claim it is Deepseek when asked in Chinese.)
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