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Rent collections are down in New York

politico.com

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Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#41

Post by rdtsc »

alexjplant wrote: post #2

> “There is a subset of people, maybe the smallest subset, who are literally making a choice not to pay rent, and we don’t do well with acknowledging that but there is a subset for whom that is the case,” [...] Others bristle at the notion that some tenants are not paying rent just because they may be able to get away with it. These people absolutely exist. To pretend that they don't is willful ignorance. They are, h…

> They are, however, indeed a "small[est] subset" to quote the gentleman in the article.

The numbers don't have to stay small because this behavior is not generated independently in a population. Multiple people may become aware of it by talking to each other, social media, forums, some crazy news event that refers to it, etc. All of the sudden a lot more people decide they can do it as well and tell their friends.

I am not defending it or saying one side is right or wrong just that when it comes to things like this there may be a different model at play on how this behavior is generated.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#42

Post by CursedSilicon »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #36
alexjplant wrote: post #2

> “There is a subset of people, maybe the smallest subset, who are literally making a choice not to pay rent, and we don’t do well with acknowledging that but there is a subset for whom that is the case,” [...] Others bristle at the notion that some tenants are not paying rent just because they may be able to get away with it. These people absolutely exist. To pretend that they don't is willful ignorance. They are, h…

I anecdotally know of a few cases in Seattle where tenants with high incomes that could easily pay just don't. There is a subculture that actively encourages this type of behavior and the laws are setup such that there are almost no consequences for it. I've also met people who bragged about doing it. While rare, it is still common enough that it has become a real problem and has become socially acceptable in some ci…

As someone who also lives in Seattle, I'd be curious to see any verifiable citations to such a wild claim

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#44

Post by weakfish »

mc3301 wrote: post #37
jen20 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the Reddit communities of tenants are bad, you should try reading the Reddit communities of landlords (at least the UK ones).

Yeah.... So many bad tenants. So many bad landlords... So many weird laws protecting and hurting both. What if we shifted to a different system?

The question that many do not want to think about. We (as a society (referring to all Western Liberalism, not just the US)) are so thoroughly convinced that Liberal Democracy is the End of History, and it's the 'flawed but best,' as many say, but refuse to imagine something better.

It's puzzling that a system that is supposed to reward creativity and genius like capitalism limits it's inhabitants in their imagination when it comes to how one might structure society.

I don't claim to have the answer, and _no,_ my issues with Liberal Democracy/Capitalism don't mean I'm a communist / socialist / thing-people-don't-like.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#46

Post by abhinai »

CursedSilicon wrote: post #42
jandrewrogers wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I anecdotally know of a few cases in Seattle where tenants with high incomes that could easily pay just don't. There is a subculture that actively encourages this type of behavior and the laws are setup such that there are almost no consequences for it. I've also met people who bragged about doing it. While rare, it is still common enough that it has become a real problem and has become socially acceptable in some ci…

As someone who also lives in Seattle, I'd be curious to see any verifiable citations to such a wild claim

He said “anecdotally”. In any case, I was wondering that if I know a friend who does this, how could I ever present a verifiable citation for it? You may have to rethink your ask.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#47

Post by polski-g »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #29
morkalork wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my city, and I assume many others, there's an informal landlord's group that shares lists of problem tenants to avoid renting to. While problematic, I wonder if it's made any impact.

Usually this is handled with credit reports right? It’s only when the state forbids landlords from demanding credit reports that informal networks are necessary. In general as a tenant you can only get away with not paying rent once (until eviction happens, no one will ever rent to you again without federal or state assurances), and as a landlord you will only skip the credit report requirement once (because your fir…

Credit reports do not have a section for "plays music loudly" or "secretly smokes by the bathroom window".

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#48

Post by polski-g »

toofy wrote: post #35

i occasionally come across some of the forums and online groups of landlords and the things they have to deal with, particularly in cities with strong protections for the tenants and its interesting to watch the perspectives. on one hand i feel for some of the landlords who have to deal with some of the very real slacks who go out of their way to be difficult tenants. on the other we’re talking about homes, by this i…

[flagged]

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#49

Post by nradov »

weakfish wrote: post #44
mc3301 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah.... So many bad tenants. So many bad landlords... So many weird laws protecting and hurting both. What if we shifted to a different system?

The question that many do not want to think about. We (as a society (referring to all Western Liberalism, not just the US)) are so thoroughly convinced that Liberal Democracy is the End of History, and it's the 'flawed but best,' as many say, but refuse to imagine something better. It's puzzling that a system that is supposed to reward creativity and genius like capitalism limits it's inhabitants in their imagination…

What would you like us to imagine? So far everything that we've tried at scale other than liberal democracy and capitalism has inevitably led to war, famine, and genocide. Western liberalism appears to be the only system that empirically works. Some would claim that "socialism with Chinese characteristics" works better, but if you look below the surface prosperity in first-tier cities the actual economic situation is rather grim and the human rights situation is horrific.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#50

Post by senectus1 »

nradov wrote: post #34
naturalmovement wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's entire Reddit communities of these people where they encourage and validate their shitty behavior. With some of the stories I've read, you'd have to be positively insane to be a small-time landlord these days, especially in these large cities with kooky renter protections that make it nearly impossible to evict someone. Go watch Pacific Heights with Michael Keaton for a fictionalized account but this stuff ab…

Tenant "protection" laws are the type of idiocy that economically illiterate progressive politicians always produce. They end up having the opposite effect by making property owners less willing to rent out to anyone. The only effective way to protect tenants is to set public policies that encourage new housing development. When there is a housing surplus, the laws of economics force landlords to treat tenants well.…

sure because a property owner is going to not rent out a property and just take the month on month hit for having an empty property. They'll either rent it or sell it.

There is a middle ground, just need to find that point.

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