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Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

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Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#21

Post by icepush »

rao-v wrote: post #16
delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #13

Don’t teach you kids perfect pitch. Introduce them to the wide variety of music from punk to jazz to classical and let them play with sounds. If they get into it, ask if they want a teacher in instrument of their liking. Perfect pitch != musicality && perfect pitch != music genious or whatever people think it is. Relative pitch, good understanding pf harmony and good rhythm is much more essential.

Is there a good way to teach kids relative pitch (beyond exposing them to a broad range of music etc.)? I struggle with this and have tried multiple times to learn different instruments from different musical traditions and instructors and have mostly failed over the years.

Yes. Focus a few weeks on just learning the sound of a particular degree of the scale. Like you are just trying to teach what the dominant sounds like ('Ruffles and Flourishes' is appropriate for this, as an example). After it's correctly learned you go to a different one. After awhile you've taught them all.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#22

Post by JSR_FDED »

stavros wrote: post #15
RickJWagner wrote: post #5

As a banjo player, I have heard perfect pitch defined this way: “Perfect Pitch: When you throw a banjo into a trash bin and it lands on an accordion.”

Can someone explain this? I don't get it.

Pitch is another word for throw. The joke is that a perfect throw is one where a banjo Is thrown into the trash (this is already funny if you consider how careful musicians are with their instruments), and what makes it a perfect throw is that it lands on an accordion (the fact that the accordion is already in the trash is also funny) and the fact that one shitty instrument landing exactly on another shitty instrument would be an athletic achievement that is given the name of a desirable musical ability “perfect pitch”, is excellent.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#24

Post by paytonjjones »

rao-v wrote: post #16
delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #13

Don’t teach you kids perfect pitch. Introduce them to the wide variety of music from punk to jazz to classical and let them play with sounds. If they get into it, ask if they want a teacher in instrument of their liking. Perfect pitch != musicality && perfect pitch != music genious or whatever people think it is. Relative pitch, good understanding pf harmony and good rhythm is much more essential.

Is there a good way to teach kids relative pitch (beyond exposing them to a broad range of music etc.)? I struggle with this and have tried multiple times to learn different instruments from different musical traditions and instructors and have mostly failed over the years.

"Sight singing" is the classic exercise to develop strong relative pitch. There are lots of resources on this — there was even a sight singing class at my college. It might be a little too challenging (and boring) for a young kid though.

If you're willing to give the app a try, I bet it could actually be a pretty solid way to learn relative as well as absolute pitch. Just manually play "Red" before you start to anchor yourself. I've noticed some improvement in my relative pitch just by practicing it with my daughter. I'd be interested to know if anyone ends up using it explicitly for that purpose.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#25

Post by sudo_cowsay »

jpease wrote: post #17
delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #13

Don’t teach you kids perfect pitch. Introduce them to the wide variety of music from punk to jazz to classical and let them play with sounds. If they get into it, ask if they want a teacher in instrument of their liking. Perfect pitch != musicality && perfect pitch != music genious or whatever people think it is. Relative pitch, good understanding pf harmony and good rhythm is much more essential.

Are these mutually exclusive? As someone who enjoys music, from punk to jazz, I wish I could identify a C from a G as easily as I can identify blue from green. We’re taught to use our eyes to identify colors, why not teach children to use their ears to identify notes?

Colors are useful. Perfect pitch is pretty much useless. The exception being a composer or school conductor (you really gotta scold those children, haha). While it is a fun trick to have, the practicality of it is very different from knowing what different colors are. The most useful application of perfect pitch I’ve seen is my high school orchestra teacher honing our intonation.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#26

Post by sudo_cowsay »

KomoD wrote: post #2

> Young children can acquire absolute (perfect) pitch — but adults cannot. The window closes around age 6. I found some papers suggesting it is possible for adults, but more difficult. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31550277/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31686378/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/388931575_Learning_...

It’s not “real” perfect pitch. It’s more like training and memorizing. It doesn’t come as naturally as it does for kids.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#27

Post by sudo_cowsay »

frafart wrote: post #11

It can be dormant in adults. I discovered it when I was 16 after meeting a pianist who had it and “taught me” how to do it. I kept getting faster and more accurate as I practiced solfeggio in music school in my 20s. Crazy thing is it changes with age. At around 30 I started regressing. These days I identify the tones but shifted by one semitone.

I feel like the pianist trained you rather than you achieving it like a little kid does. That happens sometimes if you put in the effort (learning/memorizing/training). While I am not old enough to know how it changes, could it be perhaps that what you had learned when you were 16 was in your mind a certain pitch and as ears change (a 16 year old can hear higher pitch than 30 year old), you don’t relearn it, therefore it’s shifted? Please correct me (pretty sure I’m wrong)

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#28

Post by laurieg »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #18
rao-v wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a good way to teach kids relative pitch (beyond exposing them to a broad range of music etc.)? I struggle with this and have tried multiple times to learn different instruments from different musical traditions and instructors and have mostly failed over the years.

Everyone can learn good relative pitch with practice. Music schools do this regularly, and it's just a skill you can pick up. Start by identifying intervals, then learn chords, and then learn to write down music you hear, and so on. It just takes work.

I wonder if there's a bit of survivorship bias with this one. I've never been able to learn relative pitch after trying quite a lot of different methods, ear training app and playing a couple of musical instruments. If you're in a music school then perhaps your baseline musical ability is already relatively high?

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#29

Post by sowbug »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #4

What are the next steps after, let's say, a child is able to indentify all "colors"? They can distinguish F/A and F/C, then what? Should this app/method be combined with regular piano/other lessons, so the child knows what's even happening?

Rick Beato has at least one child with absolute pitch, with stunning ability to name chords and the discrete notes in them. Here's the short video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cb1qwCUvI

I'm not a musician, but I'm told the kid's way of naming the chords is particularly adept from a musician's point of view, and that's because the dad (a very accomplished musician) helped teach the kid. I am sure Rick has made more videos about what he did.

Re: Show HN: Teach your kids perfect pitch

#30

Post by adamdennis »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #13

Don’t teach you kids perfect pitch. Introduce them to the wide variety of music from punk to jazz to classical and let them play with sounds. If they get into it, ask if they want a teacher in instrument of their liking. Perfect pitch != musicality && perfect pitch != music genious or whatever people think it is. Relative pitch, good understanding pf harmony and good rhythm is much more essential.

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