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Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

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Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#21

Post by digitaltrees »

nezuzen wrote: post #16
SwellJoe wrote: post #12

I like the idea, and it has become more pressing that everyone outside the US think about tech sovereignty because the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data, but the impression I get from Apertus is that it moves at the speed of a committee. I have no expectation they'll deliver a competitive model. At least, not competitive with current models. Maybe competitive with models a year ago (though they haven't…

"the US has become an unsafe place to keep your data" I empathize with this but curious what would make any other country a better safehaven for your data? I personally like the EU's approach to data safeguards, but are there other locales/data protections you have in mind that would keep your data "safe".

The rule of law exists in other countries in a way it does not in the US right now.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#22

Post by double0jimb0 »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

Yea, anyone who understands what makes products actually usable is opting to get paid for said skill.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#23

Post by idiotsecant »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

Better UX does not buy you a datacenter farm to train state of the art cutting edge models. Right now the only people who can do that are the technobility class.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#24

Post by wmf »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

LM Studio

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#25

Post by mrshu »

By far the most impactful product of the Apretus project are the people. To quote a memorable line from Dominique Paul (https://www.thisiscrispin.com/):

> What most people miss IMO is that this is not a team who is doing this for the fourth time like virtually any other LLM provider and who could learn from its own past experiences. I bet if the team would do another model training they could get way better results at one fourth of the costs.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#26

Post by dTal »

idiotsecant wrote: post #23
dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

Better UX does not buy you a datacenter farm to train state of the art cutting edge models. Right now the only people who can do that are the technobility class.

It does not, but it might encourage more people to care. Worrying about training is a luxury when you are starting from a baseline of "OpenAI spies upon me and controls my access". Let's focus on getting every Tom, Dick and Harry 1) on board with LLMs, because they're happening, 2) habitually using local software.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#28

Post by dofm »

sockaddr wrote: post #18
dofm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are at the mercy of frontier labs for access to SOTA LLMs I disagree with this use of SOTA, and this topic is why. Anthropic and OpenAI have “cutting-edge” models. These are beyond the state of the art but they are closed, secretive, hard to quantify. The “state of the art” is open source, open weights models that can be inspected, studied, shared and critiqued, because that is what is meant by “the art” —- it i…

Sorry but I think you’re requirement that something only be “the art” if any arbitrary person can critique it is off. The frontier labs are working on the state of the art but it’s just art that you aren’t allowed to see. Unfortunately.

It is work using the principles of the art, obviously.

But "state of the art" implies the highest state of general availability, not just in terms of access to some product, but of use of the ideas, concepts, methodologies etc.

Anthropic and OpenAI have "cutting edge" models; the state of the art is behind the cutting edge.

The state of the art is the best open source, open weights model available. More or less by definition.

I am probably tilting at windmills here.

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#29

Post by 8note »

dTal wrote: post #20

It's good that there is a movement for open LLMs, but it's not where the battleground is right now . The battleground is local vs service LLMs, and we are losing that battle badly despite all the software being here now and viable, entirely because UX sucks. How many normal people do you know who use "ChatGPT"? A lot, probably. How many even know what "Gemma" is, let alone have downloaded llama.cpp, a GGUF file from…

normal people dont really have the hardware to run local models

Re: Apertus – Open Foundation Model for Sovereign AI

#30

Post by 8note »

sockaddr wrote: post #18
dofm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are at the mercy of frontier labs for access to SOTA LLMs I disagree with this use of SOTA, and this topic is why. Anthropic and OpenAI have “cutting-edge” models. These are beyond the state of the art but they are closed, secretive, hard to quantify. The “state of the art” is open source, open weights models that can be inspected, studied, shared and critiqued, because that is what is meant by “the art” —- it i…

Sorry but I think you’re requirement that something only be “the art” if any arbitrary person can critique it is off. The frontier labs are working on the state of the art but it’s just art that you aren’t allowed to see. Unfortunately.

the art is the standard engineering practices that go into building the thing

its things you would be trained in as part of a bachelor's degree and some graduate coursework

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