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FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

arstechnica.com

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Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

epistasis wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vinay Prasad is a fraud What’s with him being allowed to continue to practice at the University of California [1]? [1] https://vinayakkprasad.com/

That is a good question, and I'm sure many of the people at UCSF are asking similar questions. However, his sort of misconduct is not the type that would usually violate tenure protections. Beyond the minor CV fibbing, without some evidence that he actually, say, solicited a bribe from Moderna, it's unlikely that he can face any sort of official sanction. The fraud is in his supposed thrust towards better scientific…

> not the type that would usually violate tenure

How can one tell whether he has tenure?

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#22

Post by epistasis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
epistasis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good question, and I'm sure many of the people at UCSF are asking similar questions. However, his sort of misconduct is not the type that would usually violate tenure protections. Beyond the minor CV fibbing, without some evidence that he actually, say, solicited a bribe from Moderna, it's unlikely that he can face any sort of official sanction. The fraud is in his supposed thrust towards better scientific…

> not the type that would usually violate tenure How can one tell whether he has tenure?

For normal research universities, like UCSF, the titles of Professor and Associate Professors have tenure. Assistant Professors are tenure-track, meaning that they have the chance to get tenure. Prasad has the title of Professor.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#23

Post by JumpCrisscross »

epistasis wrote: post #22
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not the type that would usually violate tenure How can one tell whether he has tenure?

For normal research universities, like UCSF, the titles of Professor and Associate Professors have tenure. Assistant Professors are tenure-track, meaning that they have the chance to get tenure. Prasad has the title of Professor.

Would you say Prasad’s public-health misconduct rises to the level where creating a statutory change to what permits firing under tenure makes sense?

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross »

epistasis wrote: post #17
Zhenya wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious why you claim he’s a fraud, I just learned about him from this thread.

Prasad, to the extent he had a reputation before, was for critiquing the scientific practice as inadequate, which would hope that he'd bring the idea of rigor to his stint at the FDA. Instead, we see quite the opposite: - This baffling Moderna decision, which is so bad that many in the industry assumed it was from a failed bribe solicitation - Linked in this article is the "truly evil" decision requiring sham brain s…

> Lied on his CV about being on a highly prestigious council

You called this “minor CV fibbing” above. If he was lying about this when he applied for tenure, wouldn’t that be Cause?

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#25

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
epistasis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good question, and I'm sure many of the people at UCSF are asking similar questions. However, his sort of misconduct is not the type that would usually violate tenure protections. Beyond the minor CV fibbing, without some evidence that he actually, say, solicited a bribe from Moderna, it's unlikely that he can face any sort of official sanction. The fraud is in his supposed thrust towards better scientific…

> not the type that would usually violate tenure How can one tell whether he has tenure?

[deleted]

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#26

Post by consensus1 »

> Prasad was also behind the rejection of a closely watched gene therapy for Huntington’s disease made by UniQure

This guy is a disaster. But really it's not just him. It's the entire organizational structure that puts him, or any other one person, in the position that they have the power to do this. There is simply no one qualified.

We need to have expert scientists to set up trials and review the design of the trials and conduct the analysis of the data. This is something that is generally objective and not able to be done without skills and experience. But then you have to make a decision based on those results. And the decision is some sort of risk reward trade off. While science can quantify what that tradeoff is, which path to take is fundamentally outside of the scope of science.

Trade offs are not objective determinations at all because they are based on subjective preferences. And therefore it makes no sense to force it into a one size fits all approval or denial by some centralized body. The only rational approach to such a trade off is to allow each individual to choose for themselves. The only person's opinion on whether the risk justifies the reward for the experimental Huntington's disease treatment is the patient's. The best we can do with science is to use it for its intended purpose to produce good data for him to make his choice.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#27

Post by fn-mote »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23
epistasis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For normal research universities, like UCSF, the titles of Professor and Associate Professors have tenure. Assistant Professors are tenure-track, meaning that they have the chance to get tenure. Prasad has the title of Professor.

Would you say Prasad’s public-health misconduct rises to the level where creating a statutory change to what permits firing under tenure makes sense?

I would say that the US has had enough destruction of institutions and few enough institutional protections of individuals.

I can dislike someone’s stance while at the same time recognizing that others benefit from the same protections.

If protections are reduced, the process will be weaponized.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

fn-mote wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say Prasad’s public-health misconduct rises to the level where creating a statutory change to what permits firing under tenure makes sense?

I would say that the US has had enough destruction of institutions and few enough institutional protections of individuals. I can dislike someone’s stance while at the same time recognizing that others benefit from the same protections. If protections are reduced, the process will be weaponized.

> If protections are reduced, the process will be weaponized

This is a valid concern. So is moral hazard from a lack of accountability. I’m trying to figure out how those balance.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#29

Post by nfw2 »

epistasis wrote: post #4

The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants is one of the biggest disasters of the current years. The very concept of merit has been destroyed and replaced with judgement calls on celebrity (necessary for leadership role) and subservience to the political whims of the last 15 minutes (and you had better switch in the next 15 minutes or you're out).

One thing that's particularly frustrating about all this is that any conversation with the growing contingency of distrustful people has been made very difficult by what I would call poor, avoidable, and illiberal decisions made by the federal government during COVID. (TBF, decisions during a crisis are always hard.)

Lab leak theory was dismissed and actively suppressed. Inflated claims were made a priori about absolute vaccine efficacy that any responsible researcher who have not made.

Moreover, the trouble with trying to shut down real disinformation, eg claims that vaccines were more dangerous than the virus, is that many people will view any sort of paternalistic behavior by the government, especially around speech, with suspicion. ("Why do they care so much about what I say? They must be hiding something")

In the age of social media, I think the study of public health needs to consider more seriously the effects of viral psychology. The irrationality and stubbornness of people needs to be expected when planning public policy.

Re: FDA advisors unanimously vote to approve Moderna's mRNA after agency drama

#30

Post by peyton »

epistasis wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vinay Prasad is a fraud What’s with him being allowed to continue to practice at the University of California [1]? [1] https://vinayakkprasad.com/

That is a good question, and I'm sure many of the people at UCSF are asking similar questions. However, his sort of misconduct is not the type that would usually violate tenure protections. Beyond the minor CV fibbing, without some evidence that he actually, say, solicited a bribe from Moderna, it's unlikely that he can face any sort of official sanction. The fraud is in his supposed thrust towards better scientific…

> he is so sloppy with major decisions of life and death

To be clear, the FDA regulates marketing claims. “Is the label accurate?”

Major decisions about life and death are between the doctor and the patient, not the FDA.

It sounds like you’re taking an expansive view of this government agency’s mandate. People will push back on this at the ballot box, even if they can’t put it to words themselves.

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