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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#31

Post by sublinear »

slowcache wrote: post #2

This is great advice to become a pain in the ass that managers know they need to keep on a short leash. There's a big difference between "I'm going to put this into prod on tuesday unless you tell me otherwise" vs "I'm going to put a prototype together for review on Tuesday unless you tell me this is a waste of time"

I've never seen anyone just "put something into prod" unless it was for a very small org.

Putting managers on babysitting duty is a workplace smell. A reckless dev is the least of your worries.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#32

Post by epolanski »

notatoad wrote: post #13

i think the reason this works is an implication that the article doesn't explicitly cover: if you tell somebody you're going to to do something, you're not asking them to take responsibility. you're telling them that you're taking responsibility for whatever you're going to do. If you ask somebody's permission, you're asking them to take some portion of responsibility for what you're doing. which is the same risk tha…

Another reason is that you're making a choice for them.

We think we like more choices, but it's generally proven that having less makes it easier to decide.

One path is: "fuck sake, I need to review all of this and make an informed decision". The other is: "If I have time I'll check it otherwise who cares".

There's another benefit in the change of tone: you're preserving their authority, while at the same time making things easier.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#33

Post by epolanski »

krapp wrote: post #30
rho138 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*failed communist state In proper function, ownership is an essential identity of any government.

The end goal of communism is supposed to be the elimination of government - a stateless, classless and functionally anarchist society. Unsurprisingly no state which ever implemented communism ever took that part seriously.

There's many different communist philosophies.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#34

Post by kstrauser »

crazygringo wrote: post #27

Do NOT do this with your manager. The key part of this article is: > When you have something you want to do and that you feel is in scope for your position, but you want a bit of reassurance or to let the boss know what you are up to, it’s common to reach out and ask them for permission. Don’t. Don’t ask for a yes. Instead, offer a chance to say no, but with a deadline. If something is not in scope for your responsib…

I think missing from these conversations is the work environments involved. At a large company, a lot of what you said is true. At a startup, almost everything is in scope for everyone. I mean, someone has to do the thing. Part of the ask-telling is broadly communicating "I'm doing this unless someone else has already started on it or strongly wishes to do it themselves."

> And if you have a manager who often misses e-mails or takes forever to respond, then it comes across as trying to take advantage of that to do stuff they wouldn't approve, in a sneaky way.

I strongly disagree with that. Such a person is not a good manager. Their job is to be on top of things and keep their reports unblocked. If their reports are stuck waiting on them, or they claim ignorance of things they've been told about but neglected, they're not doing their job and have to be routed around.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#35

Post by kstrauser »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #22
metabagel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incapable of saying yes or not authorized to approve?

I don't think "incapable of saying yes" is a thing.

Some people are so terrified of saying yes, having it go wrong, and getting blamed for the consequences that they come across as pathologically incapable of saying yes. I have worked for such people. Briefly.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#39

Post by GMoromisato »

rho138 wrote: post #29
Chyzwar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only take responsibility if you also have ownership. Large organizations very quickly become like communist state, nobody own anything and any individual action is suspicious.

*failed communist state In proper function, ownership is an essential identity of any government.

I would love to hear an example of a successful communist state. You can even restrict it to a limited period in time (USSR 1959-1968 or something).

I promise that I will not try to discredit your answer. I'm just curious what people think.

But if you come back with "the communism I have in mind hasn't been tried yet" then I will definitely make fun of your answer.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#40

Post by SoftTalker »

sublinear wrote: post #31
slowcache wrote: post #2

This is great advice to become a pain in the ass that managers know they need to keep on a short leash. There's a big difference between "I'm going to put this into prod on tuesday unless you tell me otherwise" vs "I'm going to put a prototype together for review on Tuesday unless you tell me this is a waste of time"

I've never seen anyone just "put something into prod" unless it was for a very small org. Putting managers on babysitting duty is a workplace smell. A reckless dev is the least of your worries.

> I've never seen anyone just "put something into prod" unless it was for a very small org.

Missed the whole "move fast and break things" period?

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