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Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

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Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#241
post #84

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

Hey, PtaQ here, BAR’s Community Manager. I’m sorry this was your experience. There are definitely some very competitive lobbies, but harassment is not acceptable. Please report any players involved, as reports are the only way we can identify patterns and take action. We have an active moderation team and do review them. For a more relaxed experience, I’d recommend trying less established meta maps. Lobbies marked “r…

I quit over a year ago when one of your moderators banned me for reclaiming an allied unit that was attacking ground on my factory (he was mad at me).

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#242

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

Wow, that sounds awful. That's beyond optimising the fun out of a game, it's straight up refusing to have fun. One wonders what they get from it?

I think the situation aetherspawn is "highest rank in a low-rank lobby", e.g. an experienced player playing together with newbies. That might be a person who's just enjoying executing a specific strategy.

True top-tier players are very flexible and love high-risk tactics like flying your commander to enemy base. They also happy to "go next" if something went wrong.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#243
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

Nope , you haven't been in this community. The most fun i had been in gaming . They teach each other and help each other , share unit , share economy. Its not like COD or LOL communities.

I agree. It is crazy how much sharing units is a major part of bar. T2 cons, transports, even units to micro by the front line. Simply typing im low on energy will often result in teammates sending a few windmills or tidals. Its a great change in rts games. Plus when i play vs bots with my kids i can send them more metal production so the can be the one marching in titans or dropping nukes and destroying all the bots without realizing the extra componding econ i sent them. They have a blast.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#244

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

Playing RTS since long time, TA to SupCom to FaF, I need to say that I totally understand your condition, especially considering my own experience and evolution on BAR.

I've seen lot of new or learning players being disoriented from the start, trolled and attacked during games, even kickbanned because of their sub-optimal playing after being FORCED to play front because of rating and placing/slot login in BAR.

While personally having a strong RTS background and even very specific to TA and FaF (basically BAR) I had to went through the same high toxicity problems.

The solution has been to don't give up, self learn through pain and few friends tips all the gaming micro details expected by other players and hidden in pro player knowledge.

IMHO this happened mainly and simply due to the lack of a well structured and established learning path for new players, that instead of opening a lobby list and joining the heat to get instantly rammed by toxicity should have the possibility to obtain basic game positioning, build and control knowledge in an more appropriate and structured way, in game info guidance on start -> tutorial?

Regarding the point of the poor newbie have to go as front player and holding while the pros stay in the back, is still kinda normal since the back positions, as especially the tech ones, are more fundamental later in the game, meaning that having a newbie there would be much worse game wise. and dont forget this is valid only for skill draft mode, there are othe draft modes too, even if the skill one is used "99%" of the time.

I find totally off topic and even offensive talking about needing to have had hard skin to go through this toxicity, or referencing completely different game types and generalizing on community and human interaction problems. Again, a new player should have an "onboarding" path easily available and providing necessary basic logic to be able to start decently. And based on long and wide experience this seems to be mainly a BAR problem!

While I always heavily appreciate the effort behind such types of games/communities and respect it a lot (due to having done similarly in other game cases) I keep playing, learning and evolving with BAR because I miss TA and FaF BUT I often receive stress and leave after a series of bad toxic matches with "bad back taste" and this is sad for any game and community, abd should be reduced as much as possibly.

Sadly I also need to underline that I've personally seen unprofessional and sometimes also abusive or corrupt moderation from staff members, including abusive lobbies or manipulation behind player bans. Hence asking for player reports here doesn't seem decent neither, and a more legit and rock solid moderation could also help in compensating this type of issues.

And the last sad cherry (being an OSS enthusiast) is about having heard about strange forks and attribution from past work that leads now to publishers and money being involved, sad feeling but details would be needed before confirming any judgement.

I play it, I like it (because of TA and SupremeCommander Forged Alliance) but still (with all due respect for all the members behind and their effort) I often leave with a bitter or fishy back taste leftover by a generally hostile setup and community.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#245
post #84

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the com…

Hey, PtaQ here, BAR’s Community Manager. I’m sorry this was your experience. There are definitely some very competitive lobbies, but harassment is not acceptable. Please report any players involved, as reports are the only way we can identify patterns and take action. We have an active moderation team and do review them. For a more relaxed experience, I’d recommend trying less established meta maps. Lobbies marked “r…

Hey PtaQ, I appreciate the comment and that BAR is putting effort into improving the community, but I raised a pull request to edit the community code of conduct to clarify that players shouldn’t be banned simply for allowing a game to run its natural course, and virtually every dev disagreed with me and favoured the idea of kick banning a player who won’t surrender immediately after front is lost because “the game is clearly won”.

If you want to make the community better, delete all the rules that encourage players to gang up on other players for subjective reasons. These kinds of rules punish non-verbal players, who easily fall prey to verbal players (I’ll just call them bullies) who can use the rules as a justification basically to harass someone whilst getting branded a hero.

Also, a large majority of players have fun, even when they’re losing. Asking those players to accommodate a hyper-competitive few who want the tightest loop possible to winning and restarting is anti-fun. Both from the perspective of the person winning (I get so disappointed when I win front and they just surrender before I get to blow up their base) and from the perspective of the non-front players who are pressured to quit as soon as front is lost.

Won plenty of games in more casual lobbies (kind of rare) where the front player, after dying, was happy to just receive T2/3 units to control, and due to being able to focus on just controlling a few units, won the game.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

I wish LLMs played games, I'd never need to see a human again.

That's called a single player game, or playing against bots.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy wha…

I wish LLMs played games, I'd never need to see a human again.

Watch the videos of alphastar as it challenged the top starcraft 2 players to win. This was back in 2019 and was amazing to watch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaStar_(software)

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, correct. Which think about what that feels like: getting semi-consistently beaten by worse players who just all "happen to have" the exact same loadout and exact same strategies and exact same everything. That's exactly what I'm describing. It's incredibly boring.

If matchmaking is working correctly you should win some fraction of your matches, probably ~half. Losses against someone with better logistical choices is normal and expected. You should quickly pick up on what they were doing and learn to counter it. If you can't then how can you claim to be better than they are? I recognize the adjacent commenter's point about the small population though. It might be difficult to b…

Correct, and if 100% of the people who beat you are using all the same "meta" then that suggests it's not a skill variation that explains it. That makes the game extremely boring.

> You should quickly pick up on what they were doing and learn to counter it. If you can't then how can you claim to be better than they are?

You must not be familiar with what "meta" means. Modern video games seem to all have an across-the-board superior configuration. And yes, the way to "counter it" is to copy it, which is why this strategy spreads like a virus through the game until 100% of the people who beat you are all doing the exact same thing.

If the desired outcome of the game design was for everyone to use the same configurations (the meta) in order to "counter" the meta, then why have configuration options at all? Give everyone the same exact thing all the time.

The reason they don't do that is because it's extremely boring. But unfortunately the "meta-finding" capability of the streaming community yields the same functional outcome anyway. Ergo: the games are made boring by the community, as stated at the very top.

Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#249
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, online public lobbies are almost always hostile. Doesn't matter the game, either. You can ban words, phrases, etc. The hostility is also through actions and not just insults. The only way to have actual fun gaming is a private group of friends. Think lan party, and definitely not public.

We have support for a variety of ways to limit who can join you (passwording lobbies, locking lobbies etc). I get a lot of value playing with a regular group of friends on a Sunday night in part because of it.

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Re: Beyond All Reason (Free Total Annihilation Inspired RTS)

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matchmaking is a real problem in most games because of smurfing.

BAR has very sophisticated anti-smurfing, so many bans to out to people who thought they could trick the system.

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