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NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

economist.com

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Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#21

Post by ricksunny »

instagib wrote: post #18

https://archive.ph/dXddV “Donald Trump’s blocking of Anthropic is capricious and chaotic” - current title I don’t understand the posted title quote and assume it’s missing a lot of context or was misinterpreted as it’s a secondary attribution. “Mythos broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours”. When you put it on those networks already and gave it compute?

(see other comment about HN titles). I think expecting an HN post title to match the article title is an overzealous interpretation of the fieldname ‘title’ in the HN submission form. Happy to be corrected if it’s right in the HN forum rules, but I’ve found highly upvoted posts to have an accurately descriptive title that is other than the source article’s title.

In other words, ontologically speaking, post.title -= article.title

I used to treat it as post.title = article.title, but the community taught me by example to cease being a purist.

Anyway article’s flagged so this is just pedantic at this point.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#22

Post by johndough »

mirekrusin wrote: post #16
johndough wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is necessarily true. - With a weaker model, the time to break into the system might grow so larger that it becomes infeasible, similar to how password hashes can be bruteforced, but if the password is long enough, that is not going to happen in our lifetime. - There might be problems which are inherently unsolvable with a lower level of intelligence. For example, your dog won't derive calculus from…

Mythos and other models are not brute-forcing passwords (and with this analogy passwords, ie. systems are the same). We're not talking about dogs, but LLM systems. Mythos is not exploring entire solution space either. Usually looping is solved by repetition/frequency/presence/n-gram penalties/DRY/min-p sampling, not temperature but we're not talking about small models that have those classes of issues here.

> Mythos and other models are not brute-forcing passwords (and with this analogy passwords, ie. systems are the same).

I am not talking about literally bruteforcing passwords (although LLMs are being used for that, too), but bruteforcing passwords and solving verifiable domain tasks have quite a few similarities, especially when considering rule-based and probabilistic bruteforce methods.

> We're not talking about dogs, but LLM systems.

Well, clearly dogs are not LLM systems. It is an analogy. If there is an important point on your mind that makes the analogy break down, feel free to spell it out.

> Mythos is not exploring entire solution space either.

Yes, but weaker models do not find the solution right away, so they need to try more often. But if they only try the same thing every time, they will never succeed, so we need some kind of guarantee that they try something different every time.

> Usually looping is solved by repetition/frequency/presence/n-gram penalties/DRY/min-p sampling, not temperature but we're not talking about small models that have those classes of issues here.

Those might help to reduce looping (at the cost of biasing the generation), but to guarantee that a model can generate all possible generations, we need non-zero probabilities for all tokens, not lower probabilities for likely tokens.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#23

Post by bel8 »

ricksunny wrote: post #20
bel8 wrote: post #6

HN post title does not match link title > NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours" > Donald Trump’s blocking of Anthropic is capricious and chaotic

I’ve found that high community-upvoted posts don’t bury the lede by parroting the headline. I used to be a headline title scribe until the HN community showed me the light.

The article has nothing about mythos breaking into classified systems in hours.

So you either posted the wrong link or are just spreading FUD.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#25

Post by pixelesque »

bel8 wrote: post #23
ricksunny wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found that high community-upvoted posts don’t bury the lede by parroting the headline. I used to be a headline title scribe until the HN community showed me the light.

The article has nothing about mythos breaking into classified systems in hours. So you either posted the wrong link or are just spreading FUD.

Yes it does.

Third paragraph:

> On June 11th Mark Warner, the vice-chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said that General Joshua Rudd, who leads the National Security Agency and the Pentagon’s Cyber Command, had told him that Mythos “broke into almost all of our classified systems, not in weeks, but in hours”.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#26

Post by bel8 »

pixelesque wrote: post #25
bel8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article has nothing about mythos breaking into classified systems in hours. So you either posted the wrong link or are just spreading FUD.

Yes it does. Third paragraph: > On June 11th Mark Warner, the vice-chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said that General Joshua Rudd, who leads the National Security Agency and the Pentagon’s Cyber Command, had told him that Mythos “broke into almost all of our classified systems, not in weeks, but in hours”.

Indeed. I missed that part.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#27

Post by Jamesbeam »

Have to give it to Cyber Command. This is cheap and effective propAIganda.

Of course, America is now the only nation on the planet with advanced weaponised AI models that are so good they beat billions of dollars and decades of IT security experience with some of the brightest minds in their fields within hours.

If this were true, you’d see the president yapping and bragging about it on Truth before the NSA director even gets a chance to publicly talk about it. Probably doing a live stream about how he personally prompts his way into an unconditional Iranian surrender. You know it, I know it.

Nice try, William, but unless I see the Senate Intelligence Committee freaking out with you sweating black goo like Giuliani, I ain’t believing it.

This is the same kind of bullshit that was showing a gun on TV that could apparently give people heart attacks with some frozen, untraceable darts.

If the US really was in possession of a technology that could hack into the most secure environments on the planet autonomously within hours, you would see all their partners pulling their access from shared IT systems and blocking all traffic coming from the US immediately.

Especially considering they have been caught spying on allies before:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how...

You know what they say in intelligence circles.

Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, it's open windows season.

None of the partners or adversaries seem to give a fuck about Mythos, so there is a good chance this is just another lying NSA director as usual.

Come on, people. You don’t run the NSA if you’re an honest man. It’s a spy agency.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#28

Post by 1over137 »

johndough wrote: post #22
mirekrusin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mythos and other models are not brute-forcing passwords (and with this analogy passwords, ie. systems are the same). We're not talking about dogs, but LLM systems. Mythos is not exploring entire solution space either. Usually looping is solved by repetition/frequency/presence/n-gram penalties/DRY/min-p sampling, not temperature but we're not talking about small models that have those classes of issues here.

> Mythos and other models are not brute-forcing passwords (and with this analogy passwords, ie. systems are the same). I am not talking about literally bruteforcing passwords (although LLMs are being used for that, too), but bruteforcing passwords and solving verifiable domain tasks have quite a few similarities, especially when considering rule-based and probabilistic bruteforce methods. > We're not talking about do…

> I am not talking about literally bruteforcing passwords (although LLMs are being used for that, too)

They are? Seems like a much worse way to brute force that a tight loop written in a compiled language.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#29

Post by jjk166 »

BikDk wrote: post #15
johndough wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is necessarily true. - With a weaker model, the time to break into the system might grow so larger that it becomes infeasible, similar to how password hashes can be bruteforced, but if the password is long enough, that is not going to happen in our lifetime. - There might be problems which are inherently unsolvable with a lower level of intelligence. For example, your dog won't derive calculus from…

The concept of infinity claims that the dog eventually becomes Shakespeare. The same way we handled encryption, even before Alan Turing codes were broken and evolved. Last, it is a huge advantage to have the machine/mind and to evolve from there. P.S. Even if you go back to lemon juice on paper there may be a thief around that knows the trick.

> The concept of infinity claims that the dog eventually becomes Shakespeare.

The ability to reproduce an exact copy of hamlet does not make one Shakespeare. A monkey on a typewriter may very well generate Shakespeare eventually, but it wouldn't understand Shakespeare then any more than it could immediately. Likewise a dog may put together some string of text that includes a derivation of calculus, but at no time will it be able to apply that derivation to solve mathematical problems.

Re: NSA director: 'Mythos "broke into almost all of our classified systems in hours"

#30

Post by amanaplanacanal »

ionwake wrote: post #9

Not being funny but does most of HN subscribe to the economist? I dont think ive ever paid for an online newspaper ( and Im not trying to be edgy )

If I was going to pay for a news subscription, it would probably be the economist. Or maybe the financial times. They both seem to still have solid journalism.
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