Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 128 posts

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#111

Post by kakistocrats »

4dregress wrote: post #76
kakistocrats wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The project was started by wealth offshoring groups on the Isle of Man that were afraid their loopholes would finally be closed, so if it could deliver on anything it claimed in order to get adequate votes then that would be coincidental. (The structure of EU and Schengen law also meant that leaving was the most likely way to raise the percentage of illegal immigrants making it to the UK.)

Again, interesting to see a new account being used to make this comment.

I also find your account interesting as a choice. If were not going to swap that account, I would at least update the "about" to reflect the risks from a Musk worth over a trillion.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#112

Post by 1dom »

Caius-Cosades wrote: post #109
Smoosh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Replaced” seems very pejorative here. The times are clearly changing, as they always do. Are you saying that it is “natural and sensible” to be racist and xenophobic? Perhaps it is. But perhaps we can do better.

>Are you saying that it is “natural and sensible” to be racist and xenophobic? Yes and I am tired pretending it is not.

It's natural to be a bit racist an xenophobic internally. We're all animals at the end of the day who are motivated to protect our in groups and people like us.

The same way as it's natural to have strong feelings of wanting to inflict pain and suffering on someone who's done wrong to us or people we care about.

Choosing not to do these harmful but natural things is called "being civil". Nobody has to be civil, but a civil society is that way because it makes uncomfortable consequences on people who aren't civil.

It is not sensible to be xenophobic and racist in a civil society unless you consider harming others and inviting uncomfortable consequences on yourself as sensible.

But you don't have to pretend. You can choose to be outwardly racist and xenophobic if you want, it just doesn't seem very sensible.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#113

Post by roryirvine »

sefrost wrote: post #101
jltsiren wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is simply that these feelings have existed for a long time and the government has generally gone against what the electorate have asked for. The electorate repeatedly asked for those policies by voting the parties that enacted them. If they had other opinions, they didn't express them in any way that actually matters. That's a feature of first-past-the-post elections. The system deliberately prioritizes re…

There has never been a British election where the majority votes cast have been for parties that pledged to increase immigration. I take your FPTP point, but when has the winning party under FPTP had a manifesto commitment to increase immigration? Let’s just face facts. We might disagree personally but a majority of people have always voted against immigration and it’s regularly a top 3 issue. Often the top issue!

In 2019, the Conservatives stood on a manifesto that promised, amongst other things, to ditch immigration targets (in favour of a more generous points-based system), to increase foreign recruitment of healthcare workers, and to introduce a new student visa which would attract "more students from all over the world" and encourage them to stay on and apply for work in the UK after graduation.

They won a big majority as a result.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#114

Post by roryirvine »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #108
archagon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could well be the case that the growth of white identitarianism is almost entirely driven by white supremacist media moguls, who are unfathomably rich and shape the zeitgeist to a large degree. See also: antisemitism in Nazi Germany. I’m sure some Jewish people committed serious crimes against non-Jewish Germans. But that was incidental, not causal, to the vile propaganda that eventually led to the Holocaust.

It could be, but I really don't think so. The splintering of Reform UK and then Restore Britain strongly suggests to me that there's a mass movement. If it were a plot by media moguls, I would have expected them to carefully manage discontent to keep people within the Tories.

But Musk isn't a traditional media mogul, and understands very little of the nuance in UK politics.

I don't think he has any particular strategy in mind other than recklessly stirring up trouble in whatever way he can.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#115

Post by 1attice »

rob_c wrote: post #92
1attice wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, the climate is in as rough a shape as those so-called extremists would have you believe. You can quite literally read it off the veniers, or at least we could until we hired a strong man to smash them. Nuclear is another matter -- I reckon the European anti-nuclear movement set climate change ahead by at least several years, but these days the cost/benefit leans solar, as political unrest pairs poorly with…

There are extremists who claimed the ocean would be destroyed by acid rain, oil would run out by 2020 and co2 levels would push the temps to 25+C in the UK for most of the year. None of these things have happened but these people were still let near schools unvetted with these claims in the 90s. If day we've learned to communicate science better but fools in the know all to quickly become political bedfellows with mo…

You have a great narrative there, with villians and deception, and sensible heroes who dismiss the nonsense with fresh air and clear heads.

But do look at the actual data. The AMOC slowing is ahead of schedule. Carbon use is down, but atmospheric carbon is accelerating (!) , strongly suggesting that there are now active feedback loops.

"Ha! It is Tuesday and I am not yet dead! Those silly doctors!" Feels good to shout, but won't see you through Sunday.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#116

Post by dijksterhuis »

dredmorbius wrote: post #83
dijksterhuis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are right, although i would point out that when you use the word “government” you’re mostly referring to a series of conservative party governments. at the same time. two things can be true. everything you mentioned plays a large part in why we’re in a bit of a mess as a country. this is being exacerbated by big tech firms, especially social media ones. the fact that a lie from some tech bro with a large soapbox…

"The government" in British politics (as with most parliamentary systems) is a term of art which in a policy context refers specifically to present executive authority as embodied in the Prime Minister and his or her cabinet. "The government" at the time, embodied by David Cameron, were not pushing for Brexit . It, and Cameron, pushed for a vote , but with the expectation that the referendum would be defeated.

> "The government" in British politics (as with most parliamentary systems) is a term of art which in a policy context refers specifically to present executive authority as embodied in the Prime Minister and his or her cabinet.

Fair. Although that particular term of art obfuscates some specific nuance. Namely that there were like 10 different conservative "the governments" that were referred to throughout spwa4's comment (i can't remember exactly how many different govts there were now and i cba to remember).

> "The government" at the time, embodied by David Cameron, were not pushing for Brexit.

Yes, although elements of the conservative party, some of which were part of David Cameron's government, were pushing for a referendum.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#117

Post by Dig1t »

w0de0 wrote: post #65
Dig1t wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ah, friend, America was importing people from Africa. Indeed “import” is rather more apt in this case than the several other you’ve ignored (e.g. the mass immigration from Vietnam at the finish of that war). What a horridly dull country it would be were your understanding nearer the truth; what a betrayal of its dream to wish it as you see it; how silly you would seem to your know-nothing antecedents so lumping “Euro…

Up until 1965 the US had strict origin requirements for where immigrants could come from and it was capped at a relatively low number throughout much of the 20th century.

Yes actually up until 1990 the US was overwhelmingly European ancestry, just go look at any demographic data from before 1990. Many states were 90+% white and indeed many were even higher.

The places with African slave descendants in the US were the main sources of “diversity” and were of course the ones with lower social trust and higher crime/poverty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#118

Post by Dig1t »

Smoosh wrote: post #86
Dig1t wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“Replaced” seems very pejorative here. The times are clearly changing, as they always do. Are you saying that it is “natural and sensible” to be racist and xenophobic? Perhaps it is. But perhaps we can do better.

Yes it is natural to prefer your own ethnicity and culture, which has existed for thousands of years. It is okay to say you want it to survive.

Japan, Korea, China, all have a strong preference for preserving their culture and ethnicity. Japan is 99% ethnic Japanese and has strict immigration laws. Yet they are also tolerant to outsiders who are visitors and we respect their right to govern themselves. I don’t think anyone regards the Japanese as a hateful people, yet by your definition they are indeed “racist” and “xenophobic”.

If the choice is to see your people replaced or be labeled “phobic”, then the obvious choice is to just accept the label and fight for your people.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#119

Post by dredmorbius »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #116
dredmorbius wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The government" in British politics (as with most parliamentary systems) is a term of art which in a policy context refers specifically to present executive authority as embodied in the Prime Minister and his or her cabinet. "The government" at the time, embodied by David Cameron, were not pushing for Brexit . It, and Cameron, pushed for a vote , but with the expectation that the referendum would be defeated.

> "The government" in British politics (as with most parliamentary systems) is a term of art which in a policy context refers specifically to present executive authority as embodied in the Prime Minister and his or her cabinet. Fair. Although that particular term of art obfuscates some specific nuance. Namely that there were like 10 different conservative "the governments" that were referred to throughout spwa4's com…

Regards your final 'graph, as I've also pointed out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48613291>.

Re: Big Tech is stoking unrest in the UK. Why?

#120

Post by [deleted] »

Dig1t wrote: post #117
w0de0 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, friend, America was importing people from Africa. Indeed “import” is rather more apt in this case than the several other you’ve ignored (e.g. the mass immigration from Vietnam at the finish of that war). What a horridly dull country it would be were your understanding nearer the truth; what a betrayal of its dream to wish it as you see it; how silly you would seem to your know-nothing antecedents so lumping “Euro…

Up until 1965 the US had strict origin requirements for where immigrants could come from and it was capped at a relatively low number throughout much of the 20th century. Yes actually up until 1990 the US was overwhelmingly European ancestry, just go look at any demographic data from before 1990. Many states were 90+% white and indeed many were even higher. The places with African slave descendants in the US were the…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN