71–80 of 161 posts
The red haring is that voting is hacked or illegals are voting, etc etc etc. The -real- story is disenfranchising voters by making it hard for them or out-right steaming their votes in the courts. We don't have an election fraud issue in the us. We have an election legitimacy issue.
Red Herring* - it's a fish, not a rabbit
Voter fraud means:
1. I did it.
2. I need to blame someone else.
3. The more general definition of fraud is: anything done by someone who disagrees with me.
4. Jim Crow.
5. Must go.
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Faith in elections is a two-way street. The election system must also be fully transparent, minimize the degree to which voters must trust election administrators, and keep records that would allow evidence of voter fraud to be detected. You can’t punish people for not providing evidence if you’ve designed an election system that fails to keep the information that would allow anomalies to be detected.
> The election system must also be fully transparent It should not be fully transparent. I should not be able to look up who you voted for. That should be private information. With that caveat in mind, to my eyes the election system we have is doing exactly what you’re saying it should do.
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You must have missed the 2000 election. We hung for weeks on the vagueness of paper ballots. Both sides filed motion after motion to exclude some batch of ballots or other. There was a huge number of extremely unlikely votes in a place with a badly designed paper ballot. The system right now is a security nightmare, a bad implementation of a bad idea. But anybody who lived through 2000 remembers that as even worse.
> both sides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot Gore probably won that election. I can't help but wonder about an alternate history where he became president and there was no 9/11 due to smoother handoff between administrations.
It’s an interesting counterfactual but I don’t see the mechanism. The hijackers were mostly in country by inauguration day. While it’s true that they weren’t really operating covertly prior to the attack, I don’t envision a Gore administration that could within months ratchet up FBI/CIA natsec awareness to a level that would change the outcome.
It’s hard for many of us to remember the “before times” now but back then there was a great deal of misplaced faith that foreign attacks on American soil were more or less impossible.
Faith in elections and election integrity is incredibly important. Unsubstantiated claims of election fraud should be punished severely. Politicians who baselessly erode confidence in elections without providing timely evidence should be ineligible for political office at least and potentially tried for treason.
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I think you’ve spent a little too long huffing right wing media glue. There are valid arguments against voter ID requirements. Primarily that not everyone has ID. Any push for voter ID should be paired with a comprehensive program to aid folks in registering for a valid ID. And yet it rarely is, because the aim of voter ID laws is to disenfranchise eligible voters, rather than clamp down on voter fraud. Voter fraud b…
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Wait! Wait. Before you reply: I fear you may have read my comment but heard "repeat talking points again, attack person who was unconvinced by them". Please don't do that.
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I think you’ve spent a little too long huffing right wing media glue. There are valid arguments against voter ID requirements. Primarily that not everyone has ID. Any push for voter ID should be paired with a comprehensive program to aid folks in registering for a valid ID. And yet it rarely is, because the aim of voter ID laws is to disenfranchise eligible voters, rather than clamp down on voter fraud. Voter fraud b…
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You either misremember or misrepresent WaPo’s reporting. > In all likelihood, George W. Bush still would have won Florida and the presidency last year if either of two limited recounts -- one requested by Al Gore, the other ordered by the Florida Supreme Court -- had been completed, according to a study commissioned by The Washington Post and other news organizations. > But if Gore had found a way to trigger a statew…
I was actually thinking of a much later CNN retrospective looking at various studies: https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-elect... (“Taken as a whole, the recount studies show Bush would have most likely won the Florida statewide hand recount of all undervotes. Undervotes are ballots that did not register a vote in the presidential race.”). The studies showed that Gore only would have won if counti…
Is anyone aware of any viable, or close to viable open-source options exist? That also have capacity for something like a CA statewide election?
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What about the butterfly ballots? The errors those likely caused would not be randomly distributed.
When I say “errors” I mean votes the punchcard machines couldn’t read due to the chad not being punched out all the way. Those were the ballots that were at issue in the litigation (“undercounts”). The butterfly ballot would have resulted in votes for Buchanan or double votes (ones for Buchanan + Gore if the person tried to go back and correct). Gore never actually tried to get those counted in his favor. And how cou…
Whereas of course the Bush campaign was absolutely eager to ensure every vote, including those for Gore, were verified, right?
> The correct outcome then would have been re-voting, not a recount.
I do agree with you on this, entirely. Although even if that was the plan, the state of Florida is not exactly known for making poll access easy.