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'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

bbc.com

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Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#21

Post by lelandbatey »

Lammy wrote: post #18
clipsy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which raises the question: why should these robots be prioritized over humans? Why can't they use the streets when there are pedestrians? Why should the SAFETY OF HUMANS be compromised for these profit-seeking corporations and their robots? That's a good start, now ask some of the same questions about cars vs pedestrians. Ultimately, big money will win as it always does. Get used to dodging robots.

Those are not comparable at all, because cars also have humans inside.

Sure, and the delivery robots have people who want the things at the end, and the robots can't (apparently) go in the road.

Roads used to be for people and wagons, till cars showed up and kicked the people off. Now delivery bots are trying to do the same thing, kick the humans on foot off the sidewalks.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#22

Post by jdw64 »

Seeing this reminds me of a project I delivered in the past. A tram installation was being planned in my city, and a researcher conducting a feasibility study asked me to build a crawler that would submit data for their research materials. As part of the process, they explained the study to me, and I got the sense that a tram and a delivery robot are essentially the same thing in this context.

When I was organizing the results, the personal conclusion I reached was that this kind of design is ultimately about redistributing existing public space. And in that process, the first people to be pushed to the margins are, by and large, the transportation disadvantaged. This delivery robot is consuming the same public resource, public space, and the same dynamic plays out: the weakest end up being pushed out first. I think it's a similar issue.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#24

Post by Grombobulous »

exmadscientist wrote: post #20
solid_fuel wrote: post #4

I have a friend who uses a wheelchair and he hates encountering these things in the wild. I know there's a couple different companies making these things and I'm not sure if they all behave like this, but they take up the whole sidewalk and won't backup or turn to get out of the way. Instead they just sit there blinking and beeping at my friend, and of course in a wheelchair it's not easy (or safe!) to go over the cu…

Robots that cannot share sidewalks with humans, including humans in wheelchairs, should be banned from sidewalks. Full stop. End of discussion. They can use the streets proper if they want to. I'm sure there is some way to formalize that using ADA sidewalk requirements or something similar.

I really don’t understand how a four wheeled self-driving powered vehicle is allowed to drive on the sidewalk when riding a bicycle on the sidewalk in that same city is illegal.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#25

Post by Grombobulous »

devin-2030 wrote: post #23

The argument of proponents used to be that it removes a lot of large vehicles off the street for small local deliveries… yes and onto the sidewalk. Makes no sense.

I don’t think there are proponents, just corporations with capital looking for a new way to extract and concentrate wealth away from individuals. The fact that it’s a robot on the sidewalk is an implementation detail.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#26

Post by colechristensen »

solid_fuel wrote: post #4

I have a friend who uses a wheelchair and he hates encountering these things in the wild. I know there's a couple different companies making these things and I'm not sure if they all behave like this, but they take up the whole sidewalk and won't backup or turn to get out of the way. Instead they just sit there blinking and beeping at my friend, and of course in a wheelchair it's not easy (or safe!) to go over the cu…

This would seem like an easy ADA case.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#27

Post by rcxdude »

Grombobulous wrote: post #24
exmadscientist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robots that cannot share sidewalks with humans, including humans in wheelchairs, should be banned from sidewalks. Full stop. End of discussion. They can use the streets proper if they want to. I'm sure there is some way to formalize that using ADA sidewalk requirements or something similar.

I really don’t understand how a four wheeled self-driving powered vehicle is allowed to drive on the sidewalk when riding a bicycle on the sidewalk in that same city is illegal.

Probably under the same regulations that allow a powered wheelchair on the sidewalk. A low maximum speed makes up for a lot of things. But they should have a plan for encountering a wheelchair user.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#28

Post by al_borland »

solid_fuel wrote: post #4

I have a friend who uses a wheelchair and he hates encountering these things in the wild. I know there's a couple different companies making these things and I'm not sure if they all behave like this, but they take up the whole sidewalk and won't backup or turn to get out of the way. Instead they just sit there blinking and beeping at my friend, and of course in a wheelchair it's not easy (or safe!) to go over the cu…

Delivery robots also can’t come to the door. So for a person with a disability, or who simply ordered food because they didn’t want to leave the house for whatever reason (maybe they have the flu), it kills the value proposition.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#29

Post by Grombobulous »

wsatb wrote: post #19

I’m really not convinced these serve a genuine purpose at all. Beyond them always being in your way, they seem to be incredibly inefficient. This is something that would work better in a large building like a hospital, a mall, or an airport, rather than city streets.

If you’re in a city with some density, order a Jimmy John’s sandwich. “Freaky Fast” is no joke. Their delivery people make the sandwich for you toss it in their backpack and ride a bike over within seconds after your order is placed. I think my record is 7 minutes from order placed to sandwich in my hand.

Delivery places like that, the ones that existed before Grubhub and DoorDash, those are the ones that know efficiency.

If you’ve ever seen the delivery robots in person or on video you’ll see that they are super clumsy, and unlike human DoorDash drivers they make the restaurant employees come outside and fill them up.

Re: 'We had to get out of the way': The backlash over delivery robots

#30

Post by rcxdude »

clipsy wrote: post #12
relyks wrote: post #9

This article captures the problem exactly. In Miami, there are areas where sidewalks are too narrow for a robot (from Serve Robotics) and a human to share simultaneously, so either the robot or the human goes first. If the human wants to go first, they have to step into the street and walk around the robot. The robot and its operator are never courteous enough to back up. Which raises the question: why should these r…

> Which raises the question: why should these robots be prioritized over humans? Why can't they use the streets when there are pedestrians? Why should the SAFETY OF HUMANS be compromised for these profit-seeking corporations and their robots? That's a good start, now ask some of the same questions about cars vs pedestrians. Ultimately, big money will win as it always does. Get used to dodging robots.

Some of this does seem to stem from pedestrian infrastructure not exactly being great in the first place.
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