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VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

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Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#251

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

shevy-java wrote: post #226
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #89

In Russia, they claimed that new measures to block websites are necessary to protect the children online. Of course, they immediately used these new capabilities to block opposition websites and sources critical of the government. Now, seeing many European governments tirelessly push for these new measures to protect the children , I'm pretty sure that the children are finally going to be safe online.

Yeah. The children are just the excuse. They hate us for our freedome. Nobody is surprised that Russia resorts to this. They are a potemkin dictatorship. But that the UK is also acting as a dictatorship - now that's interesting.

> But that the UK is also acting as a dictatorship - now that's interesting.

VPN banning is part of the same compulsion for control that made London a global leader (in surveillance of people not suspected of a crime).

ref: https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/articles/2020-08-14/the-t...

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#252

Post by foldr »

b800h wrote: post #243
foldr wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there’s no evidence that the UK government is going to disproportionately censor right wing parties on the internet either. It’s just a false analysis to link this possible age gating of VPNs with censorship of the political right.

Banning under 16s from social media is de-facto censorship of political views outside of those promulgated by mainstream media, and as the mainstream media in this country tends to be urban-liberal in orientation, this will have an effect. Perhaps the people who set up GB News were prescient to do so.

As other posters have pointed out, the mainstream media in the UK give Reform an incredibly easy time. Their leader is openly corrupt, but this barely merits a mention. Do you really think Keir Starmer is thrilled by the idea of young people getting their impression of him from current mainstream media reports? This just isn’t a plausible analysis.

(Also, it’s worth noting that the Conservatives support the same policy, and Reform support the principle while opposing the means.)

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#253

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #89

In Russia, they claimed that new measures to block websites are necessary to protect the children online. Of course, they immediately used these new capabilities to block opposition websites and sources critical of the government. Now, seeing many European governments tirelessly push for these new measures to protect the children , I'm pretty sure that the children are finally going to be safe online.

> seeing many European governments tirelessly push for these new measures to protect the children, I'm pretty sure that the children are finally going to be safe online

There is strong, popular will for age gating social media. At the same time, at least in America, there is a deep streak of laziness and nihilism in the tech community that makes it civically useless. When combined, you get politicians getting calls every day to limit social media and little from experts on how.

So you get folks reaching for the first solution on the shelf, and then getting wedded to it. The correct approach is making this the social-media companies’ problem. If they wind up with users under N years old, they get fined. If you want to use social media, you put up with their BS. If not, you’re not affected. Unfortunately, I’ve worked on privacy and technical policy enough to be sceptical that anyone will actually pitch that to their elected. So we get this, instead. (And at the end of the day, I’ll take an imperfect solution over a perfect one that goes nowhere. Though the UK, as usual, seems to have found the worst of the bunch.)

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#254

Post by IanCal »

Retr0id wrote: post #52
embedding-shape wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full context: > Ms Kendall told Nick Ferrari: “I told MPs yesterday I'm going to come back to the House with a statement on the issue of VPNs in July. There are very strong views on both sides of this. For some people, it is about privacy, and it is the ability to use that is really held strongly by people. And for others, they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around. And so I— the main th…

What is there to research? Yes, VPNs can be used to circumvent geofences (and by extension, regional age restrictions). Yes, attempting to age-restrict VPNs is at odds with strong privacy guarantees. Privacy is a human right, and one which is essential for effective democracy.

Are there ways of doing age gating while preserving privacy? For whom? How many people need that kind of privacy, would it impact lots of (say) teens seeking help or is this about whistleblowers? Are many under 18s using VPNs for porn? Or have they just shifted to other platforms anyway? If we implemented it “perfectly” would it even do the thing we wanted?

What are the actual numbers here? If there’s lots of fuss about vpns but actually while there’s been a big jump in use it’s not under 18s anyway it wouldn’t help.

> Privacy is a human right, and one which is essential for effective democracy.

And does this get broken enough for age gating something? We age gate alcohol to reasonable success, sometimes that involves showing id.

I’m not arguing for age gating here but I do think understanding the tradeoffs may require more evidence.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#255

Post by JumpCrisscross »

crims0n wrote: post #101
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #89

In Russia, they claimed that new measures to block websites are necessary to protect the children online. Of course, they immediately used these new capabilities to block opposition websites and sources critical of the government. Now, seeing many European governments tirelessly push for these new measures to protect the children , I'm pretty sure that the children are finally going to be safe online.

It is really disheartening to see the sentiment around privacy erode like this. Fifteen or even ten years ago this would have been unanimously and vehemently opposed, but now it is somehow up for debate?

> disheartening to see the sentiment around privacy erode like this

Coders went from being civically active—calling their electeds and showing up to events to defend privacy in the 90s—to being comfortably rich and content with maybe voting in generals. That’s had a direct effect on policy quality.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#256

Post by liveoneggs »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #229
liveoneggs wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but isn't it the labour party pushing this?

The Labour have their own friends of Epstein too, see the Mandelson scandal, and some think Labour's much more rightwing now than it needs to be.

left and right appear to have lost all meaning

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#257

Post by cherryteastain »

NegativeK wrote: post #214
lunar_rover wrote: post #150

If you ban IPsec ESP people will start using WireGuard on random ports. If you ban WireGuard using DPI people will start using SSL VPNs. If you ban SSL you ban the entire internet.

They don't want perfection. They want to move things forward, for their definition of forward. If they ban bog standard VPNs and find out they're still being used, they'll punish the VPN companies. If the VPN companies create workarounds and avoid the punishment, they'll punish the payment processors. If the VPN companies start using esoteric workarounds and taking cryptocurrency for payment, then they've mostly won…

Mullvad already does all of the things you mentioned. Cryptocurrency payments with no KYC, and many anti-censorship [1] methods. Moreover, their mobile and desktop apps apply heuristics to find combinations of anti-censorship measures that work automatically. It's very user friendly (all the user needs to do is press on connect). So, the blocking attempts are still pointless because large, prominent providers already make all these bypass methods very user friendly.

[1] https://mullvad.net/en/help/connecting-to-mullvad-vpn-from-r...

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#258

Post by Fredkin »

toyg wrote: post #141
hereme888 wrote: post #133

Honestly, the UK already shot itself in the foot. Now they're shooting their other foot. And they keep voting for the Labor party... And yet, govt will find it's impossible to regulate the creativity of software engineers.

> And they keep voting for the Labor party. The alternatives are even more power-mad, fundamentally illiberal parties (Reform, Conservatives), equally pearl-clutching ones that will likely continue on the same road as Labour (greens) and unreliable figures that will flip-flop as soon as they are in power (libdems). What's left? Count Binface, I guess.

Conservatives drafted the OSA in 2021.

Reform are against it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/28/reform-uk-v...

Even the more extreme Restore are against it, and against Digital ID https://www.restorebritain.org.uk/restore_civil_liberties

The Greens are ... well they wanted to amend it in 2024 to include a ban on fake news, but that could turn into a mechanism for censorship.

And Lib/Lab/Con were all for building even more on top of it in 2024: https://www.handleygill.co.uk/handley-gill-blog/general-elec...

There are no 'liberal' parties in the UK.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#259

Post by halJordan »

joe_mamba wrote: post #31
kouteiheika wrote: post #5

> the main thing that we've done is we've commissioned additional research on this because I've not been happy with the evidence. Ah, yes, the existing research doesn't agree with our biases, so let's fund new "research" that does.

Isn't it how it alwasy works?

The tobacco industry has decades worth of research saying smoking was beneficial. The antis just kept funding more studies.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#260

Post by happyPersonR »

embedding-shape wrote: post #22
kouteiheika wrote: post #5

> the main thing that we've done is we've commissioned additional research on this because I've not been happy with the evidence. Ah, yes, the existing research doesn't agree with our biases, so let's fund new "research" that does.

Full context: > Ms Kendall told Nick Ferrari: “I told MPs yesterday I'm going to come back to the House with a statement on the issue of VPNs in July. There are very strong views on both sides of this. For some people, it is about privacy, and it is the ability to use that is really held strongly by people. And for others, they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around. And so I— the main th…

> they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around.

Ummm what??? lolll

if they don't want their kids using vpn... why would banning vpn for everyone and requiring ID verification be the answer? LOLLLL

That sounds like they need to control their kids

"it's hard" ...

"WHY DID YOU HAVE KIDS THEN?!?!?!"

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