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GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

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Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#191
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a side gig, I write novel software that solves problems no existing software does, that existing LLMs have difficulty reproducing, purely for the purpose of existing as LLM training data. There are journalists being hired to write Atlantic-worthy articles that exist only as LLM training data, because they're getting paid more than the Atlantic would pay them for it. It's insane. Yes, they are hiring the experts th…

1. How did you land the side gig? Mercor or a lessor known brand? 2. What criteria do such vendors typically require?

I've done Mercor and other brands - the contracts move around, since the labs want the vendors to know they're just vendors and have to compete with each other. It seemed to be roughly resume and interview similar to getting hired at a senior role at FAANG or adjacent.

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#192
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers are abysmal. Should we really be using LLMs to write our code? I have a theory- LLMs can spit out code that gets the job done and looks ok, maybe even great, but contains small “anomalies” that compound over time. An enterprise app developed entirely with LLM-happy devs might end up virtually unmaintainable. I’m not sure how to explain it, but the more I see LLM-written code the more I feel it’s bad cod…

Easy fix: Code's basically free now, so just pipe your errors straight into an LLM and get instant patches. Sure, the patches themselves are broken too, but no worries! just pipe those back in again. Code's disposable now, fresh code generated on every request. On a more serious note, I think the problem will be the inability to handle/maintain the systems once they are too big and nobody has no idea what's inside of…

Yeah, it’s so easy to generate code that you can do a whole codebase rewrite in a day.

Is this a good idea? Probably not—in the past we would only do that when the architecture was causing serious problems since it always has tons of behaviors that will accidentally not get carried forward, some of which are load bearing and will cause bugs.

Now we can do it in an afternoon and get the same long term bug behavior.

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#193

> it is clear that actual intelligence has plateaued significantly. > Moving forward, the industry cannot continue to train bigger and bigger models since their intelligence not only plateaus but often will get worse These are wild claims - why are we concluding that bigger models and more data = more hallucination? That’s actually the opposite of what’s been happening over the last couple years. Some models may stil…

you mixed two random quotes from the article to create a strawman.

ofcourse you knew what you were doing but disappointing that this was top comment.

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#194
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nearly all benchmarks measure "accuracy" by giving you a point for a correct answer, and 0 points for everything else. If you have 100 questions you are 10% certain on, answering "I don't know" to all of those leads to 0 points, answering all of them as if you are confident leads to an expected value of 10 points. So that's what most AIs are trained to do AA-Omniscience is the only AI benchmark I know of wher…

It should be 1 for correct, 0 for don't know and -1 for wrong. They are much better incentives. In real life a wrong answer is much more damaging than a don't know.

Maybe some extra buckets could be added like depending on whether the answer ought to be known. Or, quality of the justification. “I don’t know and here’s a good reason why” is much better than “idk.” Correctly identifying that something is fundamentally unknown/unknowable is probably better than a simply-correct answer, even, right?

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are we concluding that bigger models and more data = more hallucination? That’s not what your quotes said. They said bigger models = plateau in intelligence, nothing about more data or increased hallucinations The relevant quote for what you’re talking about would be: > It’s been proven that when a model is trained on large volumes of highly factual and non-theoretical data, it learns to always have an answer.…

I find these internet arguments talking about LLMs as if they are trained by reading the internet to be wild. Yes, pretraining still exists. But for the past few years, pretraining by reading the internet is just the initial bootstrapping of LLM training. The RL training they get from bespoke training data, with very very different characteristics than what these armchair analyses claim, dominates these days.

let me take down armchair analysis with my armchair analysis

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these internet arguments talking about LLMs as if they are trained by reading the internet to be wild. Yes, pretraining still exists. But for the past few years, pretraining by reading the internet is just the initial bootstrapping of LLM training. The RL training they get from bespoke training data, with very very different characteristics than what these armchair analyses claim, dominates these days.

Where do they get the bespoke training data from? And how much? I don’t really know anything about this.

meta has reallocated a significant protion of their staff to genrating this

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#197

> it is clear that actual intelligence has plateaued significantly. > Moving forward, the industry cannot continue to train bigger and bigger models since their intelligence not only plateaus but often will get worse These are wild claims - why are we concluding that bigger models and more data = more hallucination? That’s actually the opposite of what’s been happening over the last couple years. Some models may stil…

My impression is that the fundamental issue is that LLMs attempt to extract reasoning (executive execution) from data (relationship between tokens).

There's an open question about whether this is theoretically possible, but it doesn't seem like it to me.

Human generated data is an effect of reasoning. Attempting to extract executive function from it is kind of like taking an anti-derivative of a function.

This has always seemed like the root of hallucinations to me. It sort of follows the parallels to lossy compression that a lot of people draw. You're extracting some characteristics by observing the relationship between tokens, and then trying to argue that those characteristics are equivalent to the thing that generated the original tokens.

Surely there's some sort of overlap there, but viewed that way, it seems obvious that more and more parameters and scaling won't solve the fundamental problem. There's only so much meaning you can extract from token relationships.

It's like trying to derive the shape of a flame from the smoke it produces.

The original intelligence that created those tokens was driven by a whole universe of inputs, from hormones to starlight to gravity, not to mention all of the strange things about consciousness and parapsychology that is so poorly understood.

The machines are definitely useful for a certain class of tasks - those that don't require much executive function, and the useful work mostly involves pattern matching.

The problem is, we seem to be mistaking effect for cause and imagining that these things have greater capabilities than they'll ever posess.

The investors that don't understand this are indeed going to learn a bitter lesson.

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#198

> it is clear that actual intelligence has plateaued significantly. > Moving forward, the industry cannot continue to train bigger and bigger models since their intelligence not only plateaus but often will get worse These are wild claims - why are we concluding that bigger models and more data = more hallucination? That’s actually the opposite of what’s been happening over the last couple years. Some models may stil…

Aren't hallucinations also heavily influenced by compute and memory capacity? IE. Companies can spend more time to verify results in an agentic format, spend more thinking tokens, and less quantization. All of these heavily depend on compute and memory but are proven to decrease hallucinations. Maybe GPT 5.5 is heavily nerfed due to lack of compute, memory, and energy? I agree that it's farfetched to conclude that bi…

article specifically talks about this. deepseek spending significant test time with worse results than klm

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#199

hallucination is good for tasks that have an external oracle like computer programming

Could you explain what you mean? That feels like a waste of processing to me. Yes the model will correct itself once it eventually run a compiler/linter. But that's still wasted time and compute

Re: GPT-5.5 hallucinates 3x more than MIT-licensed GLM-5.2

#200
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are we concluding that bigger models and more data = more hallucination? That’s not what your quotes said. They said bigger models = plateau in intelligence, nothing about more data or increased hallucinations The relevant quote for what you’re talking about would be: > It’s been proven that when a model is trained on large volumes of highly factual and non-theoretical data, it learns to always have an answer.…

That’s not what your quotes said. They said bigger models = plateau in intelligence, nothing about more data or increased hallucinations ... I’m pretty sure #1 is well known Well known in a multiverse branch where Fable was a dud?

No, well known in the current multiverse branch where we still occasionally use things like math and scientific analysis instead of people’s vibe checks and pelican SVGs.

Here’s the paper from OpenAI where Dario himself was a co-author: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2001.08361

> We have observed consistent scalings of language model log-likelihood loss with non-embedding parameter count N, dataset size D, and optimized training computation Cmin, as encapsulated in Equations (1.5) and (1.6). Conversely, we find very weak dependence on many architectural and optimization hyperparameters. Since scalings with N,D,Cmin are power-laws, there are diminishing returns with increasing scale.

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