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Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

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Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#191

Post by keithpeter »

sergiotapia wrote: post #29

Point in case, I've been trying to buy Windows 8 in Bolivia for the past three weeks and STILL can't buy it legally anywhere. Every option has been exhausted and I'm kind of annoyed. I wanted to ditch my pirated version of Windows 7 and finally go legit now that I can afford it, but Microsoft just won't take my money. A torrent just works.

I'm calling this 'the oatmeal argument' and it has considerable force.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones

Is Windows 8 not available for download in Bolivia? If so is that some silly regional trade reason? Or are network speeds too low?

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#192

Post by sergiotapia »

keithpeter wrote: post #191
sergiotapia wrote: post #29

Point in case, I've been trying to buy Windows 8 in Bolivia for the past three weeks and STILL can't buy it legally anywhere. Every option has been exhausted and I'm kind of annoyed. I wanted to ditch my pirated version of Windows 7 and finally go legit now that I can afford it, but Microsoft just won't take my money. A torrent just works.

I'm calling this 'the oatmeal argument' and it has considerable force. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones Is Windows 8 not available for download in Bolivia? If so is that some silly regional trade reason? Or are network speeds too low?

Windows 8 isn't available for sale, for some reason. I don't know why. I can download a Windows 7 pirated version easily in 7 hours, I doubt network speeds are the culprit here.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#193

Post by ZeroGravitas »

cageface wrote: post #140
kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

It probably depends on the business, but I know several developers of music production software that can correlate huge drops in sales with the release of new cracks of their software to the exact day . I think we are a little too quick to assume that a pirated copy is not a lost sale.

Even if that was a real effect I'd imagine it would be hard to spot. The alternative, that they're seeing what they expect to see seems just as likely, if not more.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#194

Post by julienmarie »

Interesting point here. But it forgets that it is a well known reality from software vendors, who basically choose how well protected their software can be. As an example, an interesting move was Apple's one with Logic Pro. I remember previous versions being uncrackable, needing a USB dongle. And then, as a move to conquer market share, the only protection is now just a serial number (I'm not even sure if Logic calls home to check it... ). The more people can use your technology for free in a training / learning / amateur way, the more you will become a standard, the more you will sell licenses to your customer base : the professionals.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#195

Post by slowpoke »

greggman wrote: post #144
vidarh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic that you make your argument this way, when the statement that it is not theft is generally exactly intended to highlight the moral issue. To me and a lot of others, illegal copying is far more morally defensible than theft. If someone tries to call a person that pirate a thief, my immediate reaction is that the claim is not only flat out false, but offensive. Copyright protection is an artificial gov…

So what do you call it when you take a service and don't pay for the service? If you hire a lawyer but don't pay her for her time. If you hire a plumber but don't pay him for his time? A car mechanic? A doctor? A programmer? An artist? I see that a programmer or artist is slightly different because the work the programmer or artist did can be duplicated where as the lawyer, plumber, doctor, car mechanic's work can no…

>I see that a programmer or artist is slightly different because the work the programmer or artist did can be duplicated.

That's not only "slightly different", that's the crucial difference. So no, they aren't "effectively the same", they are two completely unrelated cases. Would people please stop trying to use this dishonest and flat out false argument to support entirely wrong chains of argumentation?

Besides which, the work an artist/programmer has done is unrelated to the distribution of the result. If one expects to be paid for the actual work done, they have to seek other models. One that often comes up here is Kickstarter, where a form of contract is made - money for work done. Perfectly fine. Musicians have and always had concerts and merchandise as their source of income. Comissioned works are also possible, and are a very valid source of income. Additionally, there's patronage - which is, for example, basically the way Linus Torvalds makes his money.

I'm positive this list is by far not exhaustive.

So no, pirating something is not taking someone's work time, since their time and money spend for distribution is effectively zero.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#196

Post by Flimm »

kstenerud wrote: post #142
cageface wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably depends on the business, but I know several developers of music production software that can correlate huge drops in sales with the release of new cracks of their software to the exact day . I think we are a little too quick to assume that a pirated copy is not a lost sale.

That would make sense, considering that music production software tends to be viciously expensive, and music producers tend to not have much money.

If cageface's data is accurate, the expense of the software would not explain the sudden drop. Do music producers suddenly get poorer after a crack is released?

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#197

Post by slavak »

pringles wrote: post #122
cremnob wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trope comes up every time piracy is discussed. The point is no one is talking about the legal meaning of "stealing" versus "copyright infringement". What people are saying is that it's immoral. The fact that a content company's product is easily stolen simply because the nature of his business means it is effortless to do through the internet doesn't change anything. If you go to a lawyer for legal advice and th…

> If you go to a lawyer for legal advice and then refuse to pay him saying "I haven't deprived you of a tangible product so it's not really stealing" you are missing the point, it's still theft. That is theft because you've robbed the lawyer of his opportunity cost. For the time he was spending giving you legal advice, he could have been giving it to someone else that would pay him. A more apt analogy would be secret…

Actually it's most certainly not theft. It's probably categorized as breach of contract -- though don't take my word here. Regardless you've just ended up proving his point.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#198

Post by slavak »

Domenic_S wrote: post #185
demetrius wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What is wrong with accepting that >> you are doing something wrong and... >> keep doing it if you wish? Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Paraphrasing you: I don’t understand what is wrong with accepting that pirates are doing something right and... abstain from doing it if you wish?

> Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Your belief is not required. Laws are laws.

His belief is not required for it to be illegal. "Wrong," on the other hand, is a whole different concept...

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#199

Post by slavak »

robryan wrote: post #155
mappu wrote: post #81

Even now that i can afford it, i'd still choose pirated software over DRM and phone-home license checks. Pirates always get the better product (with the possible exception of AAA online multiplayer games).

You could always buy a copy and then use a pirated one.

I've actually ended up doing this in some cases. But I have to say: If the guy illegally copying your software and working on it via debugging and disassembly can give me a better user experience than you can, then you are doing something very, very wrong.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#200

Post by joesb »

learc83 wrote: post #134
k-mcgrady wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Many (if not most) of the people that do it would pay a reasonable price if it was possible for them to do so." And the fact that they can't afford it gives them justification for stealing it? Would it not make more sense, that if you can't afford something you aren't entitled to it? If a poor or homeless person were to steal food from a shop they wouldn't be allowed to do it because, although they would like to p…

If the homeless person was taking food from the infinite food replicator, then yes it would be fine.

Why does it have to be infinite? Every restaurant has left over at the end of the day. Is it wrong for the homeless to pick up food from those shop during the day without paying?

Is it wrong for the homeless to sleep in your house in the room no one is currently using?

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