Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do remove content directly from relays. They claim they only remove content that is illegal to host, but I don't know how true that is, and there is always the risk it could change in the future. https://docs.bsky.app/blog/blueskys-moderation-architecture#...
I want the bsky org to be able to choose what content they host (and I think the internet would be a better place without section 230 protections allowing hosts to ignore the content they distribute); the promise as I understood it was that relays could be hot pluggable. If someone stopped carrying content (maybe it was illegal in /their/ region and not yours) you could failover to another relay. However there is ver…
There are no instances in ATProto
231–240 of 327 posts
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#232ATProto is an interesting protocol and there is lots of room to argue about its plus and minuses (and about Fedi/Masto's), but lots of people are already doing that so I won't. My concern isn't technology or culture, it's money. At the moment, ATProto is existentially dependent on Bluesky PBC, a venture-funded startup ($100M from Bain Capital). There are people doing good work to make it more decentralized, more powe…
The mitigation is of course more companies and open source projects getting involved. As far as I understand it, the protocol is pretty well designed, and there is a bunch of open source out there already. It just needs more people to get involved.
But the article pointing out that you can migrate your Bluesky account to a thing called Eurosky was actually news to me. As is the existence of non Bluesky owned applications on top of atproto. I might give those a try actually. It seems a lot has happened since I last looked at this stuff a few years ago.
That still leaves governance of the protocol as a problem. That would ideally need to be untangled from Bluesky as well. But that seems doable as well. The more independent atproto software projects are out there, the harder it is for Bluesky to make breaking changes. That naturally pushes for some independent governance. I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen over time. But worst case, there could be some kind of fork/split of the network.
It would be interesting to see some attempt to bridge with other networks. A mastodon / bsky hybrid. Why make people choose? Despite X's demise, it's still X versus everything else. There's also Meta's Threads and a few others. The whole "not X" space fragments users over multiple networks that sort of could federate if they would but they really aren't. I think Threads is nominally mastodon compatible at least but actually federating is a bit frowned upon by Mastodon users.
And while we are "at" it, why not support email as well? Which is the og. federated communication network with essentially all internet users as active users. It's not perfect, but nothing better ever managed to replace it.
Separating identity from protocol is a good design choice. Cross protocol federation is a logical next step. It's all about receiving content from people, not about staying in walled gardens that belong to share holders.
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even has a wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_astronaut Joel's post was the genesis https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-architect... Salient indeed!
> They tend to work for really big companies that can afford to have lots of unproductive people with really advanced degrees that don’t contribute to the bottom line. Interesting. I'm an architect by title because my employer doesn't have the career path of a "senior specialist who really knows their stuff and wants to keep going at it". No. We have only two paths: either Manager (not interested in the slightest), o…
Anyways, it's similar in my company. People get the architect title, so managers can justify the salary promotion.
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm one of those "is it decentralized yet" people and to me the real concern is the AppView since I assume that's where censorship would be applied if it ever happens. People keep telling me about PDSes but I don't care about controlling my PDS if other people can't see my posts .
> I don't care about controlling my PDS if other people can't see my posts. Isn't that similar with Mastodon? Someone on an instance that does not federate with yours will not see your posts, and I guess someone on an instance that would censor you would not see your posts? That someone would have to change instance if they disagree with the moderation, and doing so is more painful with ActivityPub than with ATProto,…
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#235I've wondered for awhile why someone hasn't started the Blogger.com of ActivityPub/Mastodon: 1 "instance" per person, no weird complicated group dynamics, the service handles all the technical details, the user draws from the same cohort as the people who signed up for Blogger blogs in the early aughts. If there are advantages to ATProto over ActivityPub in this kind of deployment setting, they don't seem clear enoug…
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about, less than what many people pay for a tank of gas? Most people won't do it, but they don't have to, and it's not a particularly expensive hobby.
In the US. How about in Kenya or Laos? Plenty of places where $30/month is closer to “median monthly income” than “an expense you’d barely notice”.
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
$30 a month is a pretty massive costs for such a program. Why does it require such a beefy VPS, is it just the initial bootstrapping that requires such resources?
That's for a server that downloads and forwards all Bluesky traffic.
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Relays are quite expensive to run While relays are among the more intensive parts of AT Protocol infrastructure, their cost of operation is still something most people can afford: approximately $30/mo now. What is truly expensive and difficult is something that will be immutably so regardless of how centralized or decentralized you are: moderation. The author of this piece wrote about this common misconception abou…
> their cost of operation is still something most people can afford: approximately $30/mo now. Your definition of "most people" must be very different than the literal meaning.
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#239> Every single time a post about atproto hits Hacker News, somebody asks in the comments: “But where are all the Bluesky instances?”. The problem is, there are no instances in atproto! The question is a category error. Instances are a Mastodon-brained concept, and I wanted something I can link to that explains this clearly. I feel like you've (perhaps purposefully?) misinterpreted "instances" just to plug ATProto spe…
I'm being a bit cheeky in the article's tone but I am fairly confident from discussions in the past that "But where are Bluesky instances?" is a common question which usually demonstrates a misunderstanding of the architecture where "having instances of an app" is seen as a measure of decentralization. My article was an attempt to dig at this specific misunderstanding by comparing it to "But where are Google Reader i…
You didn't draw a box for Mastodon either, but my understanding is that it'd encompass all the individual instance boxes in the Mastodon-brained diagram. I think if you were to draw a box for ATmosphere it'd encompass everything in your ATProto diagrams. But what about Bluesky, Eurosky, etc? Are they "apps" in your diagram? I don't think so because I'm pretty sure they also host users' data. Are they the dotted "hosting" boxes? What are these things even called? Apparently not "instances"; are they "services"? "Networks"? "Providers"? Something else?
Re: There are no instances in ATProto
#240ATProto is "decentr-washing" as far as I'm concerned. Even if you self-host as much as possible, if Bluesky's relay declines to crawl your PDS, or its AppView declines to index/serve your records, then to essentially the entire audience you simply don't exist. did:plc controlled by a Swiss Verein, as if this could be a reason to drop all self-sovereignty worries! Credible exit was actually always working well on ActivityPub already, and if you self-host your instance you probably won't even need it anyway. Regardless, there is FEP-ef61 now, so I genuinely don't understand why to prefer ATProto over ActivityPub, even in the foreseeable future.
Let's not even talk about Nostr, that natively solves all the issues that ATProto seems to care about. Nostr is IMHO a much superior technology, unfortunately plagued by ecosystem/people and Bitcoin-dictated technical choices (BIP-340 keypairs, brrr).