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It’s jammed!
Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
11–20 of 107 posts
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#12Is GNSS jamming really as bad a problem as the article makes it seem? The article itself reads like guerilla advertising so I'm inclined not to take it at face value.
Veritasium did a video a few weeks ago about scientists trying to figure out where a space based GPS jamming signal came from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#13> When we fly over North America, for example, we see a beautiful signal all the time
I think by “fly”, they mean several hundred km in the air where you have sharply reduced below-the-horizon blocking.
Anyone got any leads on Doppler shift detecting equipment? Not hard to detect you’re getting spoofed or jammed with based on that. Power levels being all improbable wouldn’t be hard to detect either. Difficult to detect if “tuned” to a particular target but blanket spoofing would be hard.
Then at the consumer level, fallback options exist (hi wifi); but having something more local would be nice. FM radio stations maybe? Can mess with those too ofc. AM systems are already a fallback in aviation for gross navigation.
A private GNSS constellation has very business cases.
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#14GPS tampering “data” from a company who’s upcoming tech is advertised to solve the problem their data shows is indeed a problem, and coincidentally also raised their 170M series C
Competing with four free GNSS constellations is an interesting business model for sure...
And starlink...
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#15Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#16Ops.group published a report on GPS spoofing back in 2024.[1] It's bad. Ops.group is an organization for dispatchers and pilots, the people who decide the routes aircraft take and fly them. They are really angry about it. Key concerns:
- The greatest safety concern is the degraded functionality of the Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS). The system does not operate correctly after spoofing, even if GPS coverage is restored. The number of false alerts is astounding. ...
- A similar concern is the significant possibility of the GPS Receiver appearing normal to flight crew after spoofing, but in reality being contaminated with false data. ...
- This year, a 500% increase in spoofing has been observed. On average 1500 flights per day are now spoofed, versus 300 in Q1/Q2 of 2024...
They included maps. Most of the Middle East and parts of Eastern Europe no longer have useful GPS coverage. It's not just jamming. There's active spoofing, which sends out false position info.
And this was before the Iran war.
Before this, everybody in the industry thought GPS solved the aerial navigation problem. In the US, the FAA wanted to shut down many of the old radionavigation aids. Now, there's a lot more interest in improving the other systems. The military wants to go mostly inertial and is working on better inertial systems.
[1] https://ops.group/dashboard/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/GPS-S...
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#17Looks like this is mostly marketing for the services of this new constellation...
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#18> When we fly over North America, for example, we see a beautiful signal all the time I think by “fly”, they mean several hundred km in the air where you have sharply reduced below-the-horizon blocking. Anyone got any leads on Doppler shift detecting equipment? Not hard to detect you’re getting spoofed or jammed with based on that. Power levels being all improbable wouldn’t be hard to detect either. Difficult to dete…
>Anyone got any leads on Doppler shift detecting equipment?
All radio receivers? Detecting the radio doppler frequency shift for satellites is kinda trivial.
Spoofing/jamming systems also trivially include doppler shifts. The more someone is trying to interfere with your specific location, the harder it is to defeat the spoofing.
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#19GPS tampering “data” from a company who’s upcoming tech is advertised to solve the problem their data shows is indeed a problem, and coincidentally also raised their 170M series C
Competing with four free GNSS constellations is an interesting business model for sure...
I would guess the business model is 'pay us and we'll give you the encryption key to our coded transmissions'.
Those coded transmissions are far harder to jam unless you have the key. So it's all about selling to as many customers as possible whilst having not a single customer leak the key.
That's why militaries use keys that rotate daily and won't let anyone else use the military signal.
Re: Satellite reveals immense scale of GPS signal tampering
#20Is GNSS jamming really as bad a problem as the article makes it seem? The article itself reads like guerilla advertising so I'm inclined not to take it at face value.
Near a warzone with consumer hardware? Yes.
Military hardware uses different signals, encryption, more advanced receivers, etc etc, but these things are on ITAR lists and not shared with the public.
It's a little surprising to me that there's a commercial venture that has been allowed to provide these things to the public at some point.