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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#321

Post by vovavili »

runarberg wrote: post #318
vovavili wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Better then textbooks? Better then an online course? Better then watching youtube videos from Khan academy, or just better then nothing at all as described some metrics which the AI companies came up with them selves? The value of all of these self-learning routes has increased enormously due to existence of AI assistants. At least the way I do it now, I get the initial structure for a subject from YouTube/Udemy/tex…

> The value of all of these self-learning routes has increased enormously due to existence of AI assistants. This is a lie and most of us know it. AI companies have been lying and lying and lying and lying. If you believe this then the AI companies have successfully lied to you and are making you pay money for an inferior product. If this weren’t a lie then the AI companies should have the research to prove it, they…

So my personal experience apparently is a folly that requires some bureaucratically approved scientific study to validate?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#322

Post by beepbooptheory »

hparadiz wrote: post #315
beepbooptheory wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the teacher says you're wrong even if you're right. The AI tells you you're right either way. The former can facilitate an important lesson, the latter doesn't ever give you the chance to.

I've been doing things like accounting where I upload receipts and have the LLM adjust a Google sheet with the money balances. The error rate over the past year has dropped from occasionally to never. That is because there's sub agents now running that check the work. If you have multiple LLMs running with a 94% success rate but you throw them into a group that requires a consensus suddenly the number basically hits…

We simply need to run sub agents on the children's learning, then we will maximize pedagogic efficiency to 99%.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#323

Post by tacomagick »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #320
tacomagick wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that's one of the best ways to spend time. It's okay to have a hobby even if it's just rougelike games. Much better than doomscrolling on Tiktok in every way.

Not when it takes precedence over... doing your math homework, touching grass, communicating with a real flesh and blood friend (or parent/sibling), showering...

That's wildly putting things off track. I meant spend time as in free time. I assumed and took for granted things such as showering or doing homework was already done and dusted. Other than that I think students do see each other at school every day anyway so communication is not as desperate as one might think.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#324

Post by WalterBright »

I'd ban all technology in the classroom.

What works is chalkboard and chalk, pencil and paper.

You'll never get strong by watching a video of people lifting weights. Similarly, you'll never understand math by watching a video or having an AI do the work for you. And, somehow, writing out the words and equations by hand is very effective for learning.

https://www.holdenluntz.com/artists/keystone-press-agency/al...

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#325

Post by runarberg »

vovavili wrote: post #321
runarberg wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value of all of these self-learning routes has increased enormously due to existence of AI assistants. This is a lie and most of us know it. AI companies have been lying and lying and lying and lying. If you believe this then the AI companies have successfully lied to you and are making you pay money for an inferior product. If this weren’t a lie then the AI companies should have the research to prove it, they…

So my personal experience apparently is a folly that requires some bureaucratically approved scientific study to validate?

Yes, it is well known that people trying to sell you stuff lie about your experience with the product. A good salesmen will make you extremely happy to pay 10x more for a worse product. In fact a good salesman will convince you those bugs are actually feature, and you should be happy to pay 10x for so many “features”.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#326

Post by tacomagick »

grayhatter wrote: post #311
theptip wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. I think it's more complex than this. AI is both the best technology ever invented for avoiding learning, and the best technology ever invented for learning. The cat is out of the bag. If teachers are asking for take-home essay assignments in 2026 then students are going to use AI and learn nothing. "AI detectors" are nowhere near reliable enough to be fair;…

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#327

Post by tacomagick »

WalterBright wrote: post #324

I'd ban all technology in the classroom. What works is chalkboard and chalk, pencil and paper. You'll never get strong by watching a video of people lifting weights. Similarly, you'll never understand math by watching a video or having an AI do the work for you. And, somehow, writing out the words and equations by hand is very effective for learning. https://www.holdenluntz.com/artists/keystone-press-agency/al...

I do not think your example is at all fair. You can definitely learn from the way AI solves a math question.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#328

Post by vovavili »

runarberg wrote: post #325
vovavili wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my personal experience apparently is a folly that requires some bureaucratically approved scientific study to validate?

Yes, it is well known that people trying to sell you stuff lie about your experience with the product. A good salesmen will make you extremely happy to pay 10x more for a worse product. In fact a good salesman will convince you those bugs are actually feature, and you should be happy to pay 10x for so many “features”.

What exactly am I selling here?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#329

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #324

I'd ban all technology in the classroom. What works is chalkboard and chalk, pencil and paper. You'll never get strong by watching a video of people lifting weights. Similarly, you'll never understand math by watching a video or having an AI do the work for you. And, somehow, writing out the words and equations by hand is very effective for learning. https://www.holdenluntz.com/artists/keystone-press-agency/al...

Here's how to tell if their homework is done by AI: if the homework was much better quality than the in-class work.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#330

Post by 0xpgm »

nunez wrote: post #155

Spend a few minutes on the teacher subreddits: /r/teachers and /r/professors, specifically. AI has been a disaster for student outcomes and educator performance, more or less across the board. It should be banned in education, but there's no way to enforce that without increasing educator workload substantially (eliminating homework and re-working lesson plans around that; moving tests and projects back into the clas…

> without increasing educator workload substantially

Isn't this a good thing, employing more educators, building more schools?

Any sane society will always invest more into its future well being and incentivize investments into education.

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