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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#281

Post by testfrequency »

mattnewton wrote: post #269
testfrequency wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this the most upvoted comment, yet when the UK repents teens form social media it’s met with “aDulTs arE bEiNg monItoRed”. I agree with Norway here, and it’s slightly exhausting to see people attack any country that’s trying to protect kids as somehow coming for everyone’s supposed sovereignty. I care about the youth and know they are in the midst of a culture war with adults, leave them out of it until we fig…

Because banning smartphones in schools doesn’t affect adults not in those schools, whereas age verification does? How you implement these protections matter.

The rhetoric I often see online is forcing children to identify themselves which, obviously leads to adults being required to identify themselves.

How do adults declare themselves as adults without teenagers claiming to be adults also?

It’s all complicated, but I am exhausted from reading doom articles of how the UK wants adults to not exist online while trying to force children offline for their own existence and long term health..

It’s worth me noting that I’m extremely liberal, but I’ve admittedly been failing to see how we keep children safe online without forcing identity of adulthood. We do not allow teens to buy cigarettes or vapes based on vibes either, right?

(please correct or roast me, I really am struggling with this and am tired of reading refutes that are not productive)

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#282

Post by testfrequency »

tacomagick wrote: post #271
testfrequency wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this the most upvoted comment, yet when the UK repents teens form social media it’s met with “aDulTs arE bEiNg monItoRed”. I agree with Norway here, and it’s slightly exhausting to see people attack any country that’s trying to protect kids as somehow coming for everyone’s supposed sovereignty. I care about the youth and know they are in the midst of a culture war with adults, leave them out of it until we fig…

Is Norway forcing all internet users to provide their ID to access all internet services?

So how would you know who is who?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#283

Post by enraged_camel »

20k wrote: post #265
theptip wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. I think it's more complex than this. AI is both the best technology ever invented for avoiding learning, and the best technology ever invented for learning. The cat is out of the bag. If teachers are asking for take-home essay assignments in 2026 then students are going to use AI and learn nothing. "AI detectors" are nowhere near reliable enough to be fair;…

AI is a terrible teacher though. It makes stuff up all the time, and for some subjects it has a remarkably low accuracy rate

>> It makes stuff up all the time

There are a few reasons AI is not the best teacher, but this is not one of them because teachers are also frequently wrong. I say that as someone who comes from a family of teachers, ranging from kindergarten to PhD.

And here is the problem: unlike AI, a lot of teachers don’t like being questioned or challenged. If your teacher doesn’t know a subject well, and you realize this, your options as a student are pretty limited. This is especially true at lower grades.

I don’t believe that AI can replace teachers. But, if used well, it can supplement them. I think Norway is making the right call here with elementary schools, but I wouldn’t support this kind of policy at higher grades where levels.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#284

Post by jessinra98 »

Education right now has basically become a giant AI echo chamber, and it's happening nationwide. It’s this bizarre setup where teachers use AI to make assignments, students use AI to do them, teachers use AI to grade them, and principals use AI to watch over the teachers.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#285

Post by runarberg »

tacomagick wrote: post #274
20k wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a terrible teacher though. It makes stuff up all the time, and for some subjects it has a remarkably low accuracy rate

I would argue it has gotten way better. Depending on the subject it can be really helpful and some tools even have a learning mode built in now that can generate questions and tests. They are often way too easy to solve but it does not demotivate i guess.

It has always gotten better, just like how self-driving cars have gotten better, and how the case for bitcoin is always getting stronger.

Many people have stopped believing this lie. Yes AI has gotten better by some metric which AI companies are pushing. It has not gotten good enough to be a qualified teacher, and it never will.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#286

Post by mh- »

orwin wrote: post #200
stackghost wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. I have two kids and can confidently say eight year olds generally have good language skills, are capable of expressing themselves just fine, and have good comprehension of the parts of the world that they've been exposed to .

Can they identify easy stylistic device, like an extended metaphor or an anaphora? Because until they do, I will consider their comprehension skills limited.

I guess you can consider mine limited too.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#287

Post by tacomagick »

runarberg wrote: post #285
tacomagick wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue it has gotten way better. Depending on the subject it can be really helpful and some tools even have a learning mode built in now that can generate questions and tests. They are often way too easy to solve but it does not demotivate i guess.

It has always gotten better, just like how self-driving cars have gotten better, and how the case for bitcoin is always getting stronger. Many people have stopped believing this lie. Yes AI has gotten better by some metric which AI companies are pushing. It has not gotten good enough to be a qualified teacher, and it never will.

I have never claimed it to be good enough to replace a qualified educator, however for self learning it is a good tool with no hustle. You also consider how qualified some educators are...

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#288

Post by cmrdporcupine »

JimsonYang wrote: post #236
simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

> Facing a broad decline in education test scores, the government in 2024 banned smartphones from schools and has given teachers back more powers to enforce discipline in the classroom. I remember seeing an nyt article where there was mixed results on cell phone bans. While they increased socialization among students, the school didnt see better test scores. We'll have to see if a ban on AI can improve test scores-I…

Here in Ontario they "banned" phones in class/school and the teens just ignore it and the teachers are unable/scared to enforce it. As parents we've tried over and over with both our kids to lay down the law -- including taking phones away, consequences etc -- but the attitude is intense with both them and their peers and enforcement becomes very difficult once they're out of "child account" parental control range.

It's a shitty time to be a parent of a teen.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#289

Post by erentz »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #85
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it Whatever AI looks like in 20 years is going to be so different from what it is today as to make distracting from basic skill-building an almost-certainly net negative educational effort.

I agree to some degree. But by that logic, should kids in the 2000s not have learned about the internet because the internet fundamentally changed between then and now? I think that if anything, it’s really good I learned how to operate a computer and the Internet BEFORE what the Internet became. I pity the generation who don’t understand a computer’s folder structure because they grew up with smartphones and TikTok.

Your example would call more to create an "information technology" subject in schools, that updates its curriculum to include changes like the development of AI. Thus, you go to that class, some of your coursework in the year is going to involve learning about AI and how it works, what it can and cannot do, using it for some project, so on. Not using AI for doing your homework in every other subject.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#290

Post by tacomagick »

testfrequency wrote: post #282
tacomagick wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Norway forcing all internet users to provide their ID to access all internet services?

So how would you know who is who?

Some other way without making all internet usage identifiable, like maybe parents start parenting? The UK laws aren't even to protect children anyway. It is just a shell to identify everyone online.
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