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Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

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Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#411

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

hatsix wrote: post #390
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The architecture was Shazeer's, but the rough idea came from Jakob Uszkoreit who initiated the project. Uszkoreit wanted to build a more efficient/scalable language/seq2seq model that could take advantage of GPU parallelism (replacing RNNs which were the main approach to sequence modelling at that time). Uszkoreit's insight was that although language appears sequential, it is in fact really part parallel part hierarc…

This is fascinating. Do you know if there's something I can read that has this mix of timeline and technical detail?

There's an interview with Uszkoreit here that gets into a lot of the development history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayBOXv_SFCY&t=164s

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#412

Post by whiplash451 »

ltononro wrote: post #384

I wonder about the motivation to switch teams. What has Google done wrong? Was he tired? He could retire, open his own lab, raise capital. So many opportunities, why go to OpenAI? Folks talking about the amount of money paid, wasnt he the guy that was acqhired for billions? would OAI pay billions (basically to google) to get him?

At this point it might be about talent.

He could raise and build his own company. But the ability to attract the level of talent that Google/Anthropic/OpenAI have is a different story.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#413

Post by tovej »

throw37832 wrote: post #388
tovej wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zionist does have a specific meaning. It means you think the Jewish people have a god-given right to the Palestinian land, and that other creeds and ethnicities should be second class within the Jewish state in Palestine. A non-zionist Israel would be one where all peoples had the same right, e.g.

There are more Muslims living happily in Israel than Jews in all Muslim countries combined. More specifically there are 0 Jews living in areas under control of the Palestinian Authority, or in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Yemen.

That is just a blatant lie? There are Jews living in all those places. Not that many perhaps, but they exist.

And it's not really about religion. It's about Palestinians specifically, who are indigenous to Palestine, and are under Israeli apartheid.

The Palestinians who have been exiled by Israel, and their children, cannot live where their grandparents lived (even though they should have a right to return, under UN resolutions that Israel has accepted), but any Jew from, let's say Brooklyn, does.

Also, Islam is the only faith in Israel which is not allowed to self-organize. It is singled out among all religious communities as the only one who is not given this right. Which is of course incredibly discriminatory.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#414

Post by tovej »

UltraSane wrote: post #380
tovej wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zionist does have a specific meaning. It means you think the Jewish people have a god-given right to the Palestinian land, and that other creeds and ethnicities should be second class within the Jewish state in Palestine. A non-zionist Israel would be one where all peoples had the same right, e.g.

"It means you think the Jewish people have a god-given right to the Palestinian land" It was never actually Palastinian land. It was Jewish land, then Roman land, then Ottoman land, then British land, then Jewish land after Palastinians attacked Israel and lost. At no point were the Palastinians ever a sovereign country and in fact they incredibly foolishly rejected the UN offer for one. "other creeds and ethnicities…

Ok, well, you seem to be a Zionist. And not very educated on the matter (or willfully misrepresenting things).

The Palestinians are the people who lived there. The Zionists expelled half of them and razed 500 villages to the ground in 1948. It was an ethnic cleansing. They denied them the right to return.

There was a Palestinian identity and there was a Palestinian society. They revolted against the Ottomans, and the British promised them sovereignty. The British betrayed them and caved to the Zionists, and the rest is settler colonialism and apartheid.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#415

Post by bigyabai »

frollogaston wrote: post #410
bigyabai wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google only won the deal because they have great cards in their hand. Apple's homemade PCC nodes were never going to scale, but the TPUs would. Investors expected market displacement in all the wrong places. The tea leaves were pretty easy to read, too; LLMs will eventually be commoditized. Once that happens, the only road to profitable AI will be paved with 1) branding and 2) cheap compute. Apple does not possess ch…

Would expect LLM training/inference infra to become commoditized before LLMs do.

There are multiple top-tier LLMs on the market right now. The competition is intense and the product differentiation is minuscule in many cases. Claude Code had a half-life of 1 or 2 months before getting sherlocked by the community.

We don't really see this type of opportunism in the hardware space. Case in point, the TPU is a pretty big accomplishment that successfully competes for inference and stimulates the need for cheaper compute.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#416

Post by FireBeyond »

frollogaston wrote: post #276
UltraSane wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't actually answer my question. How does using the word for people who want to create a Jewish state make sense when a Jewish state has existed for 78 years?

One reasonable possibility is they're referring to people like Ben-Gvir who have themselves claimed that Zionism means fighting for Israeli control over more territory like the West Bank. They're the ones calling the shots right now. I don't know whether Zionists 78 years ago would've agreed, it's possible. To some it still means favoring any existence of a Jewish state. The inertia isn't there because aside from the…

Let's not forget that while some people like to point to "From the River (Jordan) to the (Red) Sea" as some "gotcha!" that some Palestians want to "exterminate" Israel...

it was actually Likud's official election slogan in the 70s and 80s just as ... oh, let me check, Netanyahu, was getting involved in all of this, formally becoming Likud's leader in 1993.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#417

Post by dang »

nrds wrote: post #338
dang wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of painful - I'm happy to "admit" what's true, as best I can, and not what's not true. Let's see if we can sort that out a bit in the present case. HN is certainly curated - I've been "admitting" that since the day I got outed as a mod here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7494621 (March 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507229 (April 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=79629…

> snark and indignation These are preference-based but you're pretending they're objective. I find _your_ comments to be full of snark and indignation more than any you respond to, but of course you won't agree. (But because you don't agree, that makes me objectively wrong, I know.) "Tonal arguments are ways of, frankly, policing working class ways of communication, and covering them in elite preferences." - someone…

My view is not that these things are objective—they're subject to interpretation and different people interpret differently. It's not like temperature or length where one has a thermometer or a measuring tape to determine the value.

But that doesn't mean they're arbitrary. There's such a thing as fuzzy quasi-consensus, and I can demonstrate it easily: if the moderation calls we make were not fuzzy quasi-consensuses, the community would storm the barricades and rip us a new one. There's no pastime that internet communities love better than piling on when the mods are wrong.

That doesn't mean we're always right—not by a long shot—but we're usually (maybe 70%?) in the ballpark of the median reader's interpretation—not because we're geniuses at reading the hivemind but because we've been trained to get it mostly-quasi-somewhat-ok through the sheer pain of community backlash. Operant conditioning is a hell of a drug.

So while the personal views and preferences of the mods have some effect (how could they not?), it's not the high order bit. The high order bit is the prospective community response, because we fear what happens when we get that wrong, and I assure you we have reason to fear it.

As for whether my comments are also rife with snark and indignation: I think you have a point there! And I'd be happy to discuss it further, if you want to.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#418

Post by FireBeyond »

UltraSane wrote: post #379
tovej wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not. They're still occupying a buffer zone, have broken the ceasefire countless times, and are blocking people from crossing. Israel razed Gaza to the ground. It was a genocide.

Israel left Gaza in 2005.stop telling obvious lies. Hamas attacked Israel on Oct 7 2023 killing at least 800 civilians in an act of incredibly bloodthirsty barbarism, including children, the elderly, and 364 victims attending the Nova music festival. Remember when Hamas paraded the body of that young German woman Shani Louk they killed like a hunting trophy?

> Israel left Gaza in 2005

You're absolutely right, and this is antisemitic propaganda. Israel left more than 20 years ago and didn't return until 2023 due to Hamas terrorism.

They certainly didn't return:

- for five months in 2006 for Operation Summer Rains

- or again in 2006 for Operation Autumn Clouds

- or again in 2008 for Operation Hot Winter

- or again in 2008 into 2009 for Operation Cast Lead

- or again in 2012 for Operation Pillar of Defense

- or again in 2014 for Operation Protective Edge

- or again in 2018 and 2019 for incursions and special-forces actions, like that covert IDF operation in Khan Younis that got fucked up and led to a firefight deep in Gaza (but that couldn't have happened, because they left back in 2005, right?)

- or lastly, before October 7, in 2021 in Operation Guardians of the Walls.

None of those large named operations could have happened, let alone anything smaller than named operations, like special forces or commando raids, because those things are purely Hamas propaganda, and not formal IDF operations.

Right?

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#419

Post by FireBeyond »

tovej wrote: post #414
UltraSane wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It means you think the Jewish people have a god-given right to the Palestinian land" It was never actually Palastinian land. It was Jewish land, then Roman land, then Ottoman land, then British land, then Jewish land after Palastinians attacked Israel and lost. At no point were the Palastinians ever a sovereign country and in fact they incredibly foolishly rejected the UN offer for one. "other creeds and ethnicities…

Ok, well, you seem to be a Zionist. And not very educated on the matter (or willfully misrepresenting things). The Palestinians are the people who lived there. The Zionists expelled half of them and razed 500 villages to the ground in 1948. It was an ethnic cleansing. They denied them the right to return. There was a Palestinian identity and there was a Palestinian society. They revolted against the Ottomans, and the…

> And not very educated on the matter (or willfully misrepresenting things).

Right, like stomping around the comments claiming that anything less than pretending Israel didn't set foot in Gaza between 2025 and October 7, 2023 is filthy Hamas propaganda, the existence of at least six formally named IDF operations being just a pesky bit of reality that can be easily run over by a Merkava Mk V main battle tank.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#420

Post by kelvinjps10 »

throwa356262 wrote: post #366
afavour wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://nitter.net/signulll/status/2067446889956430273 for those who don't want to click the above

Thank you, I quit twitter 8 years ago and generally avoid twitter links. Someone should write a bot to do this automatically. What is the HN policy on bots?

there is the extension libredirect that automatically can redirect to nitter
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