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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#81

Post by sisve »

solid_fuel wrote: post #67
sisve wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reduces completion time by 30% This is probably the big problem, or at least one of them.. If you use less time on learning, it will probably be harder to remember what you learned also. We need to spend some time to make it stick

The behavioral issue I see is that LLM users tend to immediately reach for an LLM and do their thinking in concert with it. This tempts users to approach problems by first feeding them into the LLM and then simply following the route the LLM lays out, which does improve task completion time for tasks that the LLM can simply regurgitate, but it stops the user from developing the actual critical thinking skills that sc…

Can agree on that.

The description of the paper also said:

AI users who maintain similar homework completion time as non-AI users experience small learning losses.

This was a surprise too me. I would have thought otherwise.

Would love to see some evidence about if more or less people fall behind and have worse results. In my head the AI should be able to get the weakest students a bit highere.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#82

Post by LtWorf »

charcircuit wrote: post #48

The traditional schooling system can't stand that they are being outcompeted by AI and are trying to use the government to maintain their monopoly and keep those tax dollars flowing.

Yep… I mean scientific studies seem to suggest that you are completely wrong. But big science is all a conspiracy against those AI companies that work so hard for the betterment of mankind after all.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#83

Post by setopt »

vorticalbox wrote: post #30
bko wrote: post #13

Im confused, are there tasks given to 6 to 13 year old to use AI? In the classroom, are they just throwing gpt in front of them? Is that the modern equivalent of watching a vhs? Or do they have homework to vibe code something or given some prompts to ask at home and save somewhere? Serious question, what does this mean?

Well one can no longer search for information in the big search engines without it just giving you the answer. This ruins “search and topic and write about it”

I guess Norwegian schools will have to use smaller / alternative search engines now?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#84

Post by WCSTombs »

LtWorf wrote: post #65
lacoolj wrote: post #52

"..ban on smart phones.." "..ban on gen AI.." "..ban on social media.." yes YES YASSSSSSSSSSSS Ban all the things for kids. I don't want to be interviewing people in 10 years and decline every candidate because they can't correctly answer the question "You are 50ft away from the car wash. Do you walk or drive?"

To be fair, norwegian kids would probably fail because they don't have a clue how much 50 feet are.

The question is slightly vague (since I could be going there not to wash my car), but I'm pretty sure in the intended interpretation, the actual distance is irrelevant. :)

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#85

Post by FinnLobsien »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59
FinnLobsien wrote: post #53

I think it’s quite tricky. On one side, writing is a form of thinking and cognitive training. Just NOT doing that work by having AI simulate it is not good for anyone’s cognitive development. At the same time, anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it. I really feel for teachers/educators right now. It must be hard to remain demanding an…

> anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it Whatever AI looks like in 20 years is going to be so different from what it is today as to make distracting from basic skill-building an almost-certainly net negative educational effort.

I agree to some degree. But by that logic, should kids in the 2000s not have learned about the internet because the internet fundamentally changed between then and now?

I think that if anything, it’s really good I learned how to operate a computer and the Internet BEFORE what the Internet became.

I pity the generation who don’t understand a computer’s folder structure because they grew up with smartphones and TikTok.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#86

Post by therealdrag0 »

solid_fuel wrote: post #60
baq wrote: post #14

AI used to write homework should be banned. AI in 1:1 tutor mode with proper hardware (live scanning pen and paper), harness and guardrails should be wildly successful (in terms of education outcomes) especially in elementary school.

Disagree. AI has no business being used in 1:1 tutor mode before the hallucination and sycophancy issues are completely resolved. As is, I can easily see it being a hindrance to building actual understanding. Just one example - it's very common to see ChatGPT and the like respond with "you're absolutely correct! Great insight" to something that is a complete misunderstanding.

Teachers hallucinate too. I’ve had creationists and communists and tin-foil-hat (chem trails, 5g, etc) teachers. Surely you can imagine an AI tutor that is higher than zero ROI.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#87

Post by solid_fuel »

LtWorf wrote: post #65
lacoolj wrote: post #52

"..ban on smart phones.." "..ban on gen AI.." "..ban on social media.." yes YES YASSSSSSSSSSSS Ban all the things for kids. I don't want to be interviewing people in 10 years and decline every candidate because they can't correctly answer the question "You are 50ft away from the car wash. Do you walk or drive?"

To be fair, norwegian kids would probably fail because they don't have a clue how much 50 feet are.

> To be fair, norwegian kids would probably fail because they don't have a clue how much 50 feet are.

I... are you an LLM? The distance doesn't matter - you probably don't want to walk to the car wash.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#88

Post by cryo32 »

irishcoffee wrote: post #77
simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8. I don’t even like LLMs and I’m against this mess. Imagine having regulations rolled out when we were 8 saying “you can’t use the internet!” And I was running my own websites by 10 years old. Let’s stop pretending this tech is as interesting as we wish it was. If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. I don’t see the difference at this po…

At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. They need a lot longer to develop those in tandem.

And also you may be above average there.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#89

Post by bebe83939 »

Great, yet another "no child and no teacher left behind!"

I was gifted kid, bored to death at basic school. I was reading books under the table, and was lucky to have tolerant teacher. Total ban would just push me to misbehaving and disrupting the class.

AI is amazing tool for learning, if Norway can not harness it, there is something deeply wrong with the educational system. Perhaps teachers unions?

Norway has a big problem with young immigrant kids at school not speaking Norwegian. Right now other kids are expected to teach them basic language, holding back their own development (like learning reading and writing)! Again, AI could provide amazing help here!

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#90

Post by solid_fuel »

charcircuit wrote: post #48

The traditional schooling system can't stand that they are being outcompeted by AI and are trying to use the government to maintain their monopoly and keep those tax dollars flowing.

> The traditional schooling system can't stand that they are being outcompeted by AI and are trying to use the government to maintain their monopoly and keep those tax dollars flowing.

Learning is a conspiracy by Big Knowing, it's all a myth. Let's just ask an LLM to all our thinking, no need to be a functional human.

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