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A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

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Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#21

Post by jmull »

intended wrote: post #12

I am conflicted. On the one hand getting governments to wade into what is fair speech is absolutely a slippery slope. Yet, platform firms are not correctly incenvitived arbiters of speech either. Square this circle: 1) Big Social Media firms have to make decisions on speech. 2) The ideals of free speech that everyone espouses are from an era where publishing and control of publishing was nascent. 3) As businesses, it…

This bill is about enhancing the protections of lawful free-speech under the US constitution.

Generally speaking, we deem various kinds of speech that harms people as NOT protected under the first amendment, and that kind of speech would not be protected here.

Yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater, libel and slander, speech calling for violence, and fraudulent advertising are some typical examples of speech not protected by the first amendment.

It would be tricky, but we could reasonably categorize engagement algorithms with certain properties as harmful to people and not subject to first amendment protections. This would be consumer protection, like laws against fraudulent advertising and other misleading claims.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#22

Post by ShinyLeftPad »

khazhoux wrote: post #15
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a real thing that people actually made to accomplish something and a fake thing you made up in your head to be angry about.

IIRC any FB post claiming that the Wuhan coronavirus originated in the Wuhan coronavirus lab, would be removed and could result in user ban, at request of the federal government.

That was true for a period of time. Something like a couple months if I remember right.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#23

Post by platevoltage »

khazhoux wrote: post #15
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a real thing that people actually made to accomplish something and a fake thing you made up in your head to be angry about.

IIRC any FB post claiming that the Wuhan coronavirus originated in the Wuhan coronavirus lab, would be removed and could result in user ban, at request of the federal government.

What were the consequences for this "request" not being implemented?

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#24

Post by jmull »

jazz9k wrote: post #17
idiotsecant wrote: post #3

Phew, they better be careful what they ask for. The current regime might find themselves hoisted upon their own petard.

Huh? We have more free speech than ever online at this moment. The last regime colluded with the major social media companies to censor people they didn't like and it's also recently come to light that they attempted to get the Joe Rogan/Spotify deal nuked, all based on censoring speech they don't like. The liberal government of the UK is moving toward complete online censorship with their bill to prevent children fr…

You are kidding yourself if you think this is a liberal vs conservative issue.

The current FCC chairman threatens the broadcast license and to block deals of networks who air shows the president doesn’t like. These threats appear to have lead directly to the cancellation of shows — a clear violation of the first amendment, though there have been no consequences so far.

If you really care about this issue, get out of your information bubble.

Whichever party is in power, Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, have tried to suppress speech they don’t like when they get in power. If we pretend this is a partisan issue we can’t stop them.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#25

Post by rpdillon »

jmull wrote: post #21
intended wrote: post #12

I am conflicted. On the one hand getting governments to wade into what is fair speech is absolutely a slippery slope. Yet, platform firms are not correctly incenvitived arbiters of speech either. Square this circle: 1) Big Social Media firms have to make decisions on speech. 2) The ideals of free speech that everyone espouses are from an era where publishing and control of publishing was nascent. 3) As businesses, it…

This bill is about enhancing the protections of lawful free-speech under the US constitution. Generally speaking, we deem various kinds of speech that harms people as NOT protected under the first amendment, and that kind of speech would not be protected here. Yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater, libel and slander, speech calling for violence, and fraudulent advertising are some typical examples of speech not protec…

For what it's worth, yelling fire in a crowded theater is First Amendment protected speech.

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/03/14/setting-1st-amendment-my...

I'm just stating facts.

https://www.popehat.com/p/the-first-amendment-isnt-absolute

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#27

Post by nxm »

platevoltage wrote: post #20
jazz9k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? We have more free speech than ever online at this moment. The last regime colluded with the major social media companies to censor people they didn't like and it's also recently come to light that they attempted to get the Joe Rogan/Spotify deal nuked, all based on censoring speech they don't like. The liberal government of the UK is moving toward complete online censorship with their bill to prevent children fr…

I'll give you that Liberals are also antagonistic towards online free speech, but pretending that we have more free speech online right now than ever before is the most insane thing I've ever heard. Just because you can post nazi shit on Twitter now does not mean we have more online freedom.

Please provide evidence that online speech in the USA is restricted in any way, unlike in Europe where you get fined and/or arrested for mean memes

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#28

Post by gleenn »

chmod775 wrote: post #19
convolvatron wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what a strange take for a non-US person. one 'side' takes a couple whacks at free speech. the other side calls them on it, gets in power, and then starts taking a chainsaw to it, and you find reason to be angry that's its side A making a fuss now? and not that side B went rogue?

I've read this five times and I still can't reconcile it with what I said.

Shouldn't you care more about the actual issue than who is writing the laws around it? Why are you so pissed off about the "who" instead of happy you are getting what you want?

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#29

Post by carlosjobim »

chmod775 wrote: post #11
burningChrome wrote: post #5

Do people not read the article, or do they just read the clickbait title and comment? Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? Or the fact the EFF is actually in support of the bill: EFF applauds Senators Cruz and Wyden for taking this critical issue seriously, and we look forward to working with Congress on this bipartisan bill as it moves through…

> Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? And thank god for that. I hope this is indicative of a larger trend in the opposite direction. I'm not in the US, but here too free speech and other democratic values have been something the far right could contrast themselves on against the center and left. It pisses me off to no end that the issues I've b…

> ideologically opposed to me

Are you sure they are? Probably most people in your country would label you as far right for championing free speech, no other issues considered. Probably you are doing the same for others.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#30

Post by jrflowers »

jazz9k wrote: post #17
idiotsecant wrote: post #3

Phew, they better be careful what they ask for. The current regime might find themselves hoisted upon their own petard.

Huh? We have more free speech than ever online at this moment. The last regime colluded with the major social media companies to censor people they didn't like and it's also recently come to light that they attempted to get the Joe Rogan/Spotify deal nuked, all based on censoring speech they don't like. The liberal government of the UK is moving toward complete online censorship with their bill to prevent children fr…

https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-states-coll...
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