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EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

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Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#11

Post by ninjalanternshk »

enz wrote: post #2

> The trigger was outages in cloud services with sometimes significant impacts on other internet services. Shortly before, an approximately 15-hour outage of the AWS cloud in the US meant that not only Amazon's own streaming services but also Atlassian, Docker, Epic Games, and the Signal messenger were unavailable or severely restricted. If I remember correctly, it was a us-east-1 issue specifically. Why is everyone…

Lots of AWS’s control surfaces are in us-east-1, and (not calling out any specific instances here) sometimes what’s call an “AWS outage” especially regarding us-east-1, is actually a limitation on accessing those control surfaces, ie, making changes to assets that are actually hosted elsewhere.

In such cases the services continue to operate as-is despite problems in us-east-1.

Not saying that’s not a problem, just, clarifying the scope.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#12

Post by Sayrus »

enz wrote: post #2

> The trigger was outages in cloud services with sometimes significant impacts on other internet services. Shortly before, an approximately 15-hour outage of the AWS cloud in the US meant that not only Amazon's own streaming services but also Atlassian, Docker, Epic Games, and the Signal messenger were unavailable or severely restricted. If I remember correctly, it was a us-east-1 issue specifically. Why is everyone…

Historically, AWS own infrastructure relies on us-east-1. Loosing us-east-1 usually means loosing many other AWS Global services which are required for services in other regions to be healthy.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#13

Post by Natfan »

Sayrus wrote: post #12
enz wrote: post #2

> The trigger was outages in cloud services with sometimes significant impacts on other internet services. Shortly before, an approximately 15-hour outage of the AWS cloud in the US meant that not only Amazon's own streaming services but also Atlassian, Docker, Epic Games, and the Signal messenger were unavailable or severely restricted. If I remember correctly, it was a us-east-1 issue specifically. Why is everyone…

Historically, AWS own infrastructure relies on us-east-1. Loosing us-east-1 usually means loosing many other AWS Global services which are required for services in other regions to be healthy.

insane that aws doesn't have zonal redundancy for their own systems

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#14

Post by benoau »

dbvn wrote: post #8

How could a cloud provider *not* qualify as a gatekeeper under these guidelines?

Because the threshold was designed around consumer-facing services and requires 45 million monthly users.

However the regulation also has flexibility if something is deemed critical but doesn't meet the numbers.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?toc=OJ%3AL%3...

(chapter 2, requirements are point #2 and exceptions to those are #8)

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#15

Post by benoau »

jraph wrote: post #6
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #3

It’s a very thin and a political line between being a gatekeeper and a very successful company. Are we soon going to say Spotify, ASML, and Carl Zeiss are also gatekeepers?

For ASML and Carl Zeiss (which I didn't know about), it seems like a stretch from what I can read about them. But for Spotify, why not? > It’s a very thin and a political line between being a gatekeeper and a very successful company. Of course. If you are a tech company that becomes as successful as to be a monopoly or a participant in an oligopoly with a strong network effect, why wouldn't you be recognized as a gat…

> But for Spotify, why not?

Spotify is subject to the DSA already which sits parallel to the DMA and focuses on content moderation, transparency in advertising etc.

The argument for making them subject to the DMA is flakey because there has to be actual gatekeeping, you can export your playlists and data and import them to competing services with identical catalogues.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#16

Post by CodesInChaos »

A good target for regulation of those clouds would be the inflated traffic pricing.

Either by a simple price limit on ordinary egress (e.g. max 1 EUR / TB to European providers which don't charge for peering/traffic), or by requiring them to peer at-cost with others and allowing the customers to choose such a peering for egress.

The current traffic pricing is extremely high, and makes it difficult to split your cloud installation between multiple providers.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#17

Post by ahartmetz »

protimewaster wrote: post #9
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #3

It’s a very thin and a political line between being a gatekeeper and a very successful company. Are we soon going to say Spotify, ASML, and Carl Zeiss are also gatekeepers?

> It’s a very thin and a political line between being a gatekeeper and a very successful company. Honestly, I'm fine with just placing extra requirements on very successful companies.

But this is bad for small companies because... paper rustling... because no one will invest in them if they can't become unregulated big companies!

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#18

Post by jurgenburgen »

Natfan wrote: post #13
Sayrus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, AWS own infrastructure relies on us-east-1. Loosing us-east-1 usually means loosing many other AWS Global services which are required for services in other regions to be healthy.

insane that aws doesn't have zonal redundancy for their own systems

Yeah, they should move their stuff to the cloud.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#19

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #16

A good target for regulation of those clouds would be the inflated traffic pricing. Either by a simple price limit on ordinary egress (e.g. max 1 EUR / TB to European providers which don't charge for peering/traffic), or by requiring them to peer at-cost with others and allowing the customers to choose such a peering for egress. The current traffic pricing is extremely high, and makes it difficult to split your cloud…

Traffic pricing has to be understood as being, at least in part, a control against free-riding on the provider's networking architecture. The Data Act already gives EU customers a right to egress their data to another provider at cost, which all major cloud providers have implemented. But that doesn't (and shouldn't) mean that they have to give you a marginal-cost-only CDN.

Re: EU to soon classify AWS and Azure as gatekeepers under DSA

#20

Post by AIcanbiteme »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #3

It’s a very thin and a political line between being a gatekeeper and a very successful company. Are we soon going to say Spotify, ASML, and Carl Zeiss are also gatekeepers?

Is this really a good faith comment? Anyway the EU just fines US tech giants, it's part of doing business in the EU. It must be worthwhile, the fines must only amount to a small percentage of the lucre gathered there.
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