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A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

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Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#11

Post by chmod775 »

burningChrome wrote: post #5

Do people not read the article, or do they just read the clickbait title and comment? Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? Or the fact the EFF is actually in support of the bill: EFF applauds Senators Cruz and Wyden for taking this critical issue seriously, and we look forward to working with Congress on this bipartisan bill as it moves through…

> Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort?

And thank god for that. I hope this is indicative of a larger trend in the opposite direction.

I'm not in the US, but here too free speech and other democratic values have been something the far right could contrast themselves on against the center and left. It pisses me off to no end that the issues I've been harping on about for years are now most effectively championed by a group that is otherwise ideologically opposed to me. I'm not mad at the right for this, I'm mad at the center and left who handed it to them.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#12

Post by intended »

I am conflicted. On the one hand getting governments to wade into what is fair speech is absolutely a slippery slope. Yet, platform firms are not correctly incenvitived arbiters of speech either.

Square this circle:

1) Big Social Media firms have to make decisions on speech.

2) The ideals of free speech that everyone espouses are from an era where publishing and control of publishing was nascent.

3) As businesses, it is their job to ensure they take care of their shareholders, and thus this means driving engagement.

4) As humans, we respond and engage with certain stimului more actively than others.

5) As of 2026, moderation is still value driven. Private entities must now what is fair speech and moderate according to their values.

6) Platforms, following the incentives that are set out for them, create environments that are as addictive as possible for its users. This is what their job is.

You can make small enclaves for long form content. However, the majority of the voting population is drugged to the gills with enrapturing content.

This is not a recipie for a healthy information economy, this is the opium wars being waged by our own business structures on our own people - a druggie information economy.

Giving governments more power is ... oof... a bad idea. We need more genuine efforts to ensure a healthier content environment that works for society.

Do note, that while US based commenters are concerned, the situation is even worse in other nations, given that Authoritarianism is on an upswing. Figuring this out is not a trivial philosophical issue.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#13

Post by JoshTriplett »

panny wrote: post #2

But everyone here loves jawboning and agrees the government should suppress speech. Well, at least when their team is in office. Whether it's ICE Block or IVM Block, you can probably find a reason why you too think speech freedom is just a little too free for your tastes.

> But everyone here loves jawboning and agrees the government should suppress speech.

That sure is quite an assumption you're making.

Governments should have zero control over speech and zero ability to impose consequences on speech. Individuals and most groups should have absolute freedom of association, which is precisely what they're exercising when choosing not to associate with some speech and some speakers

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#14

Post by ToucanLoucan »

panny wrote: post #10
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a real thing that people actually made to accomplish something and a fake thing you made up in your head to be angry about.

The revolving door of corruption between the FDA and Pharma industry is pretty well documented. But it looks like my speech freedom is going to cost me some more karma. Darned consequences of speech freedom are at it again.

Firstly, freedom of speech does not guarantee you freedom from consequences of your speech. The government can't stop you from saying stupid shit, however it also can't stop other people from telling you you're stupid.

Second, horse dewormer doesn't cure COVID. Censoring dangerous misinformation from fools like yourself who will believe it because it's given to them via the right mouthpiece is a good idea, because if you don't, then you end up with fools like yourself, years after the fact, still regurgitating it.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#15

Post by khazhoux »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #7
panny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So a real thing that people actually made to accomplish something and a fake thing you made up in your head to be angry about.

IIRC any FB post claiming that the Wuhan coronavirus originated in the Wuhan coronavirus lab, would be removed and could result in user ban, at request of the federal government.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#16

Post by convolvatron »

chmod775 wrote: post #11
burningChrome wrote: post #5

Do people not read the article, or do they just read the clickbait title and comment? Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? Or the fact the EFF is actually in support of the bill: EFF applauds Senators Cruz and Wyden for taking this critical issue seriously, and we look forward to working with Congress on this bipartisan bill as it moves through…

> Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? And thank god for that. I hope this is indicative of a larger trend in the opposite direction. I'm not in the US, but here too free speech and other democratic values have been something the far right could contrast themselves on against the center and left. It pisses me off to no end that the issues I've b…

what a strange take for a non-US person. one 'side' takes a couple whacks at free speech. the other side calls them on it, gets in power, and then starts taking a chainsaw to it, and you find reason to be angry that's its side A making a fuss now? and not that side B went rogue?

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#17

Post by jazz9k »

idiotsecant wrote: post #3

Phew, they better be careful what they ask for. The current regime might find themselves hoisted upon their own petard.

Huh? We have more free speech than ever online at this moment. The last regime colluded with the major social media companies to censor people they didn't like and it's also recently come to light that they attempted to get the Joe Rogan/Spotify deal nuked, all based on censoring speech they don't like.

The liberal government of the UK is moving toward complete online censorship with their bill to prevent children from going on social media sites. The reality is that they will now be able to identify and will arrest people for posting opinions they don't like. This has already been happening for the last couple of years and will now be even easier. This is exactly how it works in China.

If Democrats come into power again in the US, this will soon be coming to a computer near you.

This should be the #1 story on HN, but the tech community has been strangely silent on the subject....

I just wish the people claiming to be champions of free speech and rights will just admit that this all goes out the window when it applies to speech and people you don't like. It would make everything much easier.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#18

Post by platevoltage »

burningChrome wrote: post #5

Do people not read the article, or do they just read the clickbait title and comment? Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? Or the fact the EFF is actually in support of the bill: EFF applauds Senators Cruz and Wyden for taking this critical issue seriously, and we look forward to working with Congress on this bipartisan bill as it moves through…

Who are you referring to? At the time I'm replying to this, there are 4 other top-level comments on this thread, and the only one even implying that it was a partisan effort was someone mentioning the "current regime" in a joking sort of way. Everyone knows that Liberals also want to limit free speech. That's not new.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#19

Post by chmod775 »

convolvatron wrote: post #16
chmod775 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently they missed Ron Wyden (co-sponsor) of the bill is a Democrat and the bill is a bi-partisan effort? And thank god for that. I hope this is indicative of a larger trend in the opposite direction. I'm not in the US, but here too free speech and other democratic values have been something the far right could contrast themselves on against the center and left. It pisses me off to no end that the issues I've b…

what a strange take for a non-US person. one 'side' takes a couple whacks at free speech. the other side calls them on it, gets in power, and then starts taking a chainsaw to it, and you find reason to be angry that's its side A making a fuss now? and not that side B went rogue?

I've read this five times and I still can't reconcile it with what I said.

Re: A new bill takes aim at government pressure to silence lawful online speech

#20

Post by platevoltage »

jazz9k wrote: post #17
idiotsecant wrote: post #3

Phew, they better be careful what they ask for. The current regime might find themselves hoisted upon their own petard.

Huh? We have more free speech than ever online at this moment. The last regime colluded with the major social media companies to censor people they didn't like and it's also recently come to light that they attempted to get the Joe Rogan/Spotify deal nuked, all based on censoring speech they don't like. The liberal government of the UK is moving toward complete online censorship with their bill to prevent children fr…

I'll give you that Liberals are also antagonistic towards online free speech, but pretending that we have more free speech online right now than ever before is the most insane thing I've ever heard. Just because you can post nazi shit on Twitter now does not mean we have more online freedom.
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