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How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

arun.is

111–120 of 158 posts

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you hear about how we fund roads and how much it costs to drive on most of them, lol.

That's a fallacious argument because roads are the universal, basic transportation infrastructure. You cannot have no roads. Your point has some relevance regarding motorways, which are not free in every countries and may be considered part of the universal road network, too. So mentioning the cost of roads is trying to deflect via "whataboutism" without addressing the point.

One can have a roadnetwork as primary means of transport .. or a railnetwork. With roads mainly for the last mile.

Where society here and now should invest, what direction to go from from here, is totally up to us. What makes the most sense - preferably in the long run.

Cars are pretty shitty for long distances. Rubber tyres wear down the road and create unhealthy dust, way more friction and noise than metalwheel on rail. And they can be directly powered with electricity.

Not carry a heavy battery around and waste energy with charging and discharging.

Or well, have the noise and dirt of combustion engines.

Those are all pretty strong arguments to invest at least equally into a well functioning train network.

Every car that can be replaced with a train (in the simple often case of a person riding the train not moving his vehicel for himself) is a net profit for society. Cleaner air. Less or allmost no pollution.

(The electric trains here next to my home are really silent and still fast)

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#112

Something I don't see mentioned in this article is the nation-wide adoption of a universal transit-payment system: IC Card (Suica is only one of several companies, but often used colloquially to mean train card). This makes it so easy to board any bus/ferry/train without worrying about setting up 30 different accounts each with its own card system. I've lived in Japan for 4 years now and it was a bit of a culture sho…

Although I'm seeing more and more public transit around the world (including Japan) adopting tap-to-pay so you can use your regular debit/credit cards.

Funnily enough, one of the companies that don't yet have tap-to-pay is... JR.

Each JR company also have their own website, and their own "network pass", making it quite cumbersome to book online tickets (e.g. needing to book each segment separately if they're on different companies' routes).

The Swiss system also has different companies, but everything can be booked on the SBB website/app.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#113

My personal experience of the multiple operators in Tokyo while traveling there only once for tourism was that it is a mess and not very convenient for users. Like having a station with almost a same name but different operator, a few hundred meters or a km away. And the difficulty of commuting between lines.

Confusing, perhaps. Inconvenient, not really, the same Suica/Pasmo cards work everywhere and handle transfers seamlessly.

Yeah, if a tourist refuses to have a Suica/Pasmo card, they're going to be quite inconvenienced.

Also, Mt. Fuji Station and Fuji Station are 2h30m apart: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Mt.Fuji+Station,+2+Chome-5-1...

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#114
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the reason why in germany we have now a broad ticket for short distance trains. Government realized they fail to meet EU regulations in reducing CO2, so they rushed to implement a cheap german wide ticket. Initially just 10€, now 60€ a month. Still a bargain, you can go anywhere as mich forth and back as you want (just not the dedicated long distance trains, so going through all of germany takes a bit…

> Government realized they fail to meet EU regulations in reducing CO2, so they rushed to implement a cheap german wide ticket. Or... Russia's attack of Ukraine caused a spike of energy prices. Now which one of us has the correct history, and which is wrong, and why? Is it revisionism?

Neither/both? It was introduced for 9€ because of the invasion, and then continued for 49€ - partially - because of the CO2 contributions

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I'm seeing more and more public transit around the world (including Japan) adopting tap-to-pay so you can use your regular debit/credit cards.

Funnily enough, one of the companies that don't yet have tap-to-pay is... JR. Each JR company also have their own website, and their own "network pass", making it quite cumbersome to book online tickets (e.g. needing to book each segment separately if they're on different companies' routes). The Swiss system also has different companies, but everything can be booked on the SBB website/app.

I find Swiss system to be very convenient. My recent visit to the country was smooth thanks to the SBB app. It works not just for rail but also for bus, trams, and ferry. I think even some cable cars are covered. Plus there it can provide discounts or free visits to selected museums.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#116
post #31

It's always frustrating to read anything by most foreigners about Japanese trains. There are around 100 train companies in Japan. JR is 7 of those 100. The other 93 are NOT JR. Drawing any conclusions about Japanese trains from inspecting 7% of them is just wrong. The title, "How Japan's railways stayed one" is just false. They were never one, they are still not one. Take Tokyo, off the top of my head there is Toei,…

This article is about the JR branding and design, not train operations. The title may be overstating the case, but the content is definitely not drawing over generalized conclusions about railroads in Japan. Not to mention the idea that JR is only 7% of Japanese railroad makes little sense in real life. JR carries a majority of rail passengers in Japan. The long tail of non JR railroad companies in Japan are small, r…

Agree. The title is partly misleading. I feel they Carefully left out the logo part from the title.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#117
post #3

A factor not mentioned is Japan's cultural sense of duty and honour. I don't think employees in the West generally feel such dedication or perfectionism towards their company but in Japan it helped make all these efficient and meticulous changes possible, and avoids issues of privatisation like neglecting maintenance / short term profit maximisation.

The flip side of that cultural sense of duty is unfortunately a rise in "black" companies (ブラック企業, burakku kigyo) and employee exploitation[1] leading to very long working hours (often unpaid) and high karojisatsu rates (suicide from overwork / stressful working conditions)[2].

At least in the past, companies like JR East were known for their worker exploitation and unfair policies, leading to decades of hostile labor disputes with Kokuro (the National Railway Workers' Union)[3].

In 2013, a family sued JR West after an overworked employee committed suicide. The family claimed he worked over 100 hours a month, and that during some months, he worked over 254 hours of overtime[4].

Japanese trains are renowned for being extremely punctual, but operators often punish employees for the smallest mistakes. They fine employees if the train is delayed by even a single minute, leading to one driver suing JR West in 2021[5].

I know the west likes to romanticise Japanese culture, but the reality of the working culture in Japan is far from romantic.

[1] https://izanau.com/article/view/black-companies-japan

[2] https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/karoshi-deep-look-japans-...

[3] https://www.jil.go.jp/english/archives/emm/2006/no.74/74_si....

[4] https://japantoday.com/category/national/family-files-lawsui...

[5] https://www.vice.com/en/article/japan-railways-lawsuit-late/

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#118
post #89
post #56

For those of you planning to go to Japan, please make sure you actually calculate how much JR train trips would cost you. They upped the price a few years ago and, since then, it's basically impossible for the JR Pass to be more affordable than single tickets. For one of my recent trips, I was actually more better served with a local pass (Kansai Wide Pass) than the JR Pass. Too bad because it used to be a really goo…

No only that, but to ride the fastest Shinkansen you still need to pay additional fee on top of JR Pass.

If you're referring to the Nozomi, wasn't it always excluded from the JR Pass?

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you hear about how we fund roads and how much it costs to drive on most of them, lol.

That's a fallacious argument because roads are the universal, basic transportation infrastructure. You cannot have no roads. Your point has some relevance regarding motorways, which are not free in every countries and may be considered part of the universal road network, too. So mentioning the cost of roads is trying to deflect via "whataboutism" without addressing the point.

You can definitely have no publicly owned or maintained roads though. There are none in my area of town and $0 tax/public funding. It's private property all the way down. The only reason why public roads look like barely competed against monopolies is that you can't compete with "free" (at the point of use), which creates the illusion that the public element of roads are more crucial than they are. But if you just shit-can all the public transport private transport will emerge organically.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#120
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the west the employee / employer social contract died sometime in the 80s. It's rare, especially in tech, to have employees with decades of tenure. You see Microsoft trying to buyout older employees recently.

Pre-Carly Fiorina Hewlett-Packard was a great example of an old-school Silicon Valley company, long before the era of “move fast and break things” and of Zuck, Elon, and Altman. I used to work for a Japanese company until I left a few years ago to teach, and when I read about the HP Way, it reminds me in many ways of life at my former employer: https://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/me...

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