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From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

reuters.com

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Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#31
post #6

The most important question here is not whether social media access should be banned to children. The question is whether everyone's rights should be stripped in an effort to enforce such a ban. I find this whole globally coordinated endeavor to be outrageous in its illiberality, and manipulative in its appeal to protecting children to justify these encroachments on people's rights.

Quite right. Around 2 million UK adults don't have photo ID, mostly concentrated among poorer and less educated people, and many of those have difficulty getting credit card for the same reason. The UK is violating their basic ECHR rights to freedom of speech, freedom of assocation, and the peaceful enjoyment of their property, and it's unnecessary because we already have parental controls.

Most continential Europeans, like in Spain and France, have mandatory strong ID. I have never seen "paper please" there.

This argument simply doesn't work.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#33

Where's the regulation of addictive dark patterns that hook kids and adults alike? Most jurisdictions regulate gambling to reduce societal harm. Social media is little different; it just has an advertising middle man.

> Most jurisdictions regulate gambling to reduce societal harm. The UK tried to ban gambling advertising during football matches but... "There were over 5,000 visible gambling advertisements during a recent Premier League match despite a ban that was expected to result in a reduction, researchers found."[0] That's one (1) televised match (you'd expect 3-4 at least per weekend to be televised.) Not to mention that the…

The "whistle-to-whistle ban" was always poor legislation. By its own terms it only suppresses TV betting adverts in a defined window and lapses at 9pm, and it never touched the categories that actually make up most of the advertising we see; shirts, hoardings, and structural branding, etc. It was an utterly pointless measure that serves to achieve not a single one of it's initial goals.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#34
There are ways to implement this without affecting anyone's privacy. For example here in Poland everyone has an ID and everyone that wants to use egov services, file taxes, or check their prescriptions online has a cryptographic identity.

It would be trivial to implement a challenge that would work like this: - the site requests you to sign a challenge

- you sign the challenge and provide it to third party verifier. (can be a gov site or a private company)

- service verifies your signature and gives you the copy of the challenge signed by itself only so your gov ID is never revealed.

- you supply the signed challenge to the original site. You prove you're an adult.

Being Polish and knowing our politics let me tell you how this will go down. The current gov is the one that will swallow everything that comes from the EU (because they are led by a guy that was the deputy leader of the biggest EU parliament party). Same guys that wasted billions trying to implement the e-prescription service that was implemented by the next gov in a fraction of time and cost.

In short they are horribly incompetent on tech so I expect the first version of this will be as bad as the crypto laws they proposed.

But thankfully the president is not from their camp and he will not sign any BS (if it starts looking like he might there will be mass protests - just look up the scale of protests last time they tried to censor the internet)

And then they will be forced to change it.

There is no technical reason why you should disclose your identity to proove you have one. That is the entire point of having those crypto identities. That you can manage how much information you provide.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#35
GrapheneOS has released their Android 17 update.

Grapheneos has stated that they won't be adding any identity verification or scanning, ever.

It's highly usable and has very similar UX to Pixels. I switched from iOS and have found the UI to be better although it's largely the same on stock Pixel.

There's over 99% app compatibility and the only failing apps are additional restrictions added by a small subset (less than 10%) of banking and government apps. There are also occasional crashes in apps when GrapheneOS blocks bugged code with their exploit protections, but these can be disabled.

iOS users can continue to use iMessage with OpenBubbles, but switching contacts to Signal is becoming easier with its growing popularity.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#37
post #27

Would someone be able to comment on this: Why is it not possible to require websites that wish to market to children to be certified as "child safe". Such sites would be audited by an independent entity that would grant them some form of encrypted key. These could be in age bands, e.g. We do this for many other things, from toys to public venues. Parents could then set their child's device to only allow access to sit…

Example I'm running my personal academic website and I research something like human sexuality or transgender people how will this be enforced since the website is just one person? Remember people in high school have been credited authors on research papers.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#38
post #7

In Australia, back in 2021, we had a senior politician run out of politics because a relatively small-time YouTuber just wouldn't shut up about his connections to organised crime. And friendlyjordies house was eventually firebombed by the organised criminals too, so that was interesting. Now obviously one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch [0] but it always struck me as the sort of thing that would ruffle feathe…

One bad apple does spoil the bunch. Apples release a gas when rotting which accelerates the rotting of nearby ones. And in politics corruption spreads.

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#39
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the people's rights to lure and attack my children? It's not a rhetorical question, it is exactly what is currently happening (and not only with children but okay).

(This comment is addressed to peer comments, not the parent post.) It's silly to say "Get better at parenting", when parents who have no specialist training, are literally facing off against trillion-dollar companies with thousands of industrial psychologists and data scientists hell-bent on making their products as addictive and profitable as possible. There are huge information- and power asymmetries at play here.…

[deleted]

Re: From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access

#40

A ban is a good idea, but not by eroding the privacy of every adult, for all of the reasons stated elsewhere. I think most people agree that social media is toxic, not just for children, but adults too. What I don't understand is why parents don't take responsibility for reducing the contact with such harmful products. Even growing up in the 70's, most children didn't smoke or drink alcohol, not because they didn't h…

> What I don't understand is why parents don't take responsibility for reducing the contact with such harmful products.

It's critical mass. I didn't want my 13-year-old daughter on social media, because even 7 years ago we knew the harms. We were firm, and we kept her off it. The problem was that we were attempting to help her with her mental health, but when you're literally the only kid who didn't read the group chat from your friend group the night before, that does remarkable damage to your mental health. It cuts off an enormous part of their social life.

If the majority of kids weren't using it then it'd be easy, but because it's their primary form of communication, it's incredibly difficult.

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