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To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

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21–30 of 64 posts

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#22
post #17

Hi everyone, Joseph (paper author) here. You can find Fractal on Github: https://github.com/jprx/fractal The full paper, slides from my S&P talk, and all our experiment data can be found at the Fractal project website here: https://fractal-os.com We've been building Fractal internally for a very long time (first commit was almost exactly 2 years ago), so it's exciting to finally share it with the world. Let me know w…

At the risk of sounding extremely dumb, I have a question for you: if the hardware is susceptible to something that you can't actually reproduce with the software everyone runs on it, who should care, and why? Is it even really fair to call it a vulnerability at that point? Is the idea that this is supposed to help identify a different mechanism of exploiting the vulnerabilities with the shipped OS too?

To give an analogy, it almost feels like removing the protection circuitry from a Li-Ion battery and then testing if it can catch fire, and observing that it does. Should it really worry users?

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#24
post #21

I am very confused by calling this kind of work "researches". They are not pushing the boundary of human knowledge - they are playing game (reverse engineering) with other human.. maybe that is me having a very narrow definition of "research"

Security researcher is a common term, there's also market research which doesn't look like it falls under your definition

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#25
I'm really excited about this work, although I haven't read the code or paper yet. It seems to me Fractal would be ideal for running benchmarks for compilers so that the OS-induced noise is kept to a minimum.

Author: do you see issues with that use case?

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#26
post #21

I am very confused by calling this kind of work "researches". They are not pushing the boundary of human knowledge - they are playing game (reverse engineering) with other human.. maybe that is me having a very narrow definition of "research"

Feel free to suggest a more suitable word. Research is usually defined against the the body of knowledge of the entity performing it and not all of humanity that ever lived.

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#27
post #21

I am very confused by calling this kind of work "researches". They are not pushing the boundary of human knowledge - they are playing game (reverse engineering) with other human.. maybe that is me having a very narrow definition of "research"

Feel free to suggest a more suitable word. Research is usually defined against the the body of knowledge of the entity performing it and not all of humanity that ever lived.

Yet a published peer-reviewed research should be against humanity. I am also curious whether such research can bring knowledge that apple don't know, otherwise even it is impressive, there is a level of sadness in it from my view.

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#28
post #21

I am very confused by calling this kind of work "researches". They are not pushing the boundary of human knowledge - they are playing game (reverse engineering) with other human.. maybe that is me having a very narrow definition of "research"

I actually do a phd in a closely related area. Creating better tools to do research with is definitely part of the research process. While there is a lot of work in general operating systems, those aimed to specifically do a lot of microarchitectural experiments is still undiscovered ground.

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#29
post #21

I am very confused by calling this kind of work "researches". They are not pushing the boundary of human knowledge - they are playing game (reverse engineering) with other human.. maybe that is me having a very narrow definition of "research"

Yes your definition of research is incorrect.

Re: To study how chips work, MIT researchers built their own operating system

#30
post #17

Hi everyone, Joseph (paper author) here. You can find Fractal on Github: https://github.com/jprx/fractal The full paper, slides from my S&P talk, and all our experiment data can be found at the Fractal project website here: https://fractal-os.com We've been building Fractal internally for a very long time (first commit was almost exactly 2 years ago), so it's exciting to finally share it with the world. Let me know w…

At the risk of sounding extremely dumb, I have a question for you: if the hardware is susceptible to something that you can't actually reproduce with the software everyone runs on it, who should care, and why? Is it even really fair to call it a vulnerability at that point? Is the idea that this is supposed to help identify a different mechanism of exploiting the vulnerabilities with the shipped OS too? To give an an…

Not the author, but as someone who frequently has to answer this question, I'll chip in:

A mistake is a mistake, whether you have a way to reproduce it right now or not. It's pretty much a given that whatever means you have right now to reproduce the problem will evolve and broaden the scope. Also, if you haven't found a way to reproduce the problem, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist: it takes a lot more effort to prove that it's impossible to reproduce than to simply not being able to reproduce the problem.

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