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Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

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Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious what metropolitan area you live in for this to be true! If you're not comfortable sharing for privacy reasons, that's all right. But it seems like this is the case in inner-ring suburbs in the Northeast megalopolis.

I grew up in the Philly suburbs. They’re mostly pre WW2 in layout, so relatively walkable and bikeable.

Yeah, I've been. They were pretty much what I was referring to in the comment.

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of that ruling is that, the intent of the constitutional clause is not only to prevent ticket prices from being raised unfairly, but also to prevent ticket prices from being so low that they no longer cover the cost of running the network, which would shift that cost to the general taxpayer. Still frustrating (if the taxpayers want it, might as well let them have it), but not purely a semantic techni…

Public transport is not sustainable from ticket prices alone anywhere in Europe.

Citation needed.

Public transport in larger cities is generally profitable as the seats are well-filled. Commercial companies pay the government for the privilege of being allowed to operate the services.

Public transport is indeed not very profitable in rural areas, as you're running a bunch of mostly-empty buses in order to provide the bare minimum of usable connectivity. The companies operating them are paid by the government to do so.

Besides, it is myopic to look solely at ticket prices. Roads are incredibly unprofitable as their maintenance costs far exceed the tiny amount of money brought in by vehicle taxes and fuel duties. But we're okay with that because the added value to the economy more than compensates for that! Lose money on road building, make money by taxing the companies who drive the trucks sustaining their businesses over them. Why not take the same approach with public transport?

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#93
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone can get the card, though maybe you need a dutch address to sent it to.

No, you need a dutch bank account to pay plus a dutch address to receive the card. That's not going to work for 99% of visitors.

The "Dutch bank account" part is almost certainly illegal, by the way. Due to EU regulations they are required to accept any European bank account. It's called "IBAN discrimination", and the national central bank has a form[0] to let them known about it.

[0]: https://www.dnb.nl/betalen/hoe-werkt-betalen/sepa-en-iban-di...

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#94
As an Australian, why are European train prices so high? Obviously it's due to a lack of subsidies, but why are they not subsidised?

For instance, a train from London to Edinburgh (about 4 hours) is about $120 while an equivalent trip in Australia (Melbourne to Albury) is about $10 (it used to be about $40, but that's still much cheaper). Sydney to Melbourne is 900 kilometers and $80, Berlin to Paris is minimum $172.

Is there very little competition from cars and planes?

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#95
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the Netherlands and have absolutely no need for this ticket. When I need to go somewhere, I just walk or bike there, never takes more than 20 minutes. I cannot even imagine living in American suburbia

I live in American suburbia and that's how I live. I can walk or bike whenever I feel like it, drive if it suits me. I sometimes wonder what the average European assumes American suburbia to be. Endless tract homes? Such places do exist, true. But that is far from universal.

It is though, like, 90-95% of suburbia, and why the US has close to 100% of car commuters ( https://vis.csh.ac.at/citiesmoving/ ). Even small cities like Rennes (or even Clermont-Ferrand, which has objectively mediocre transit) have less car commuters than NYC, which is insane.

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And? What's the gotcha you're implying?

That you clearly value other things the US offers over the transit situation. If the transit matters that much, making the US such an unlivable hellscape, why stay?

I think that's probably the point they're trying to make.

IMO that doesn't mean we shouldn't bother to make the transit better, but some people think its somehow related. A lot of people think the "success" of the US is strongly correlated to this suburbia design somehow.

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#97
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can walk. But can you walk to your workplace, your kid’s nursery, your local bakery/supermarket, your doctor, your dentist, the pharmacy?

I bike to all of those. Only work is typically so far away that you need to drive, the rest exists in every suburb and is in bike distance.

Absolutely not in every suburb.

I used to live in a suburb in Sacramento and just walking to the closest grocery store was over an hour

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#98
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the Netherlands and have absolutely no need for this ticket. When I need to go somewhere, I just walk or bike there, never takes more than 20 minutes. I cannot even imagine living in American suburbia

I live in American suburbia and that's how I live. I can walk or bike whenever I feel like it, drive if it suits me. I sometimes wonder what the average European assumes American suburbia to be. Endless tract homes? Such places do exist, true. But that is far from universal.

> But that is far from universal

I mean even just perusing around a lot of metro areas on Google Maps its by far the norm. I know its by far the norm for just about every metro I've spent more than a week or two in.

Definitely not universal, no. And in some place the "norm" can be pretty different, even in somewhat surprising locales. But generally speaking? Yeah, pretty terrible experience for a lot of pedestrians and cyclists in US suburbia.

I mean, most places I've visited traveling around the US suburbia, bike lanes were practically non-existent, there was zero notable public transit at all, and sidewalks were usually an afterthought if they existed at all.

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#99

Nice pass. Would be perfect for my wife and I since we don't commute for work. There is something similar here in Switzerland but not as good. Funny fact: there are cities here that have tried to make public transport free. But the constitution says public transport must have a "reasonable charge". It's obvious that law was created to not overcharge but the courts have ruled that it also means that there can't be no…

My understanding of that ruling is that, the intent of the constitutional clause is not only to prevent ticket prices from being raised unfairly, but also to prevent ticket prices from being so low that they no longer cover the cost of running the network, which would shift that cost to the general taxpayer. Still frustrating (if the taxpayers want it, might as well let them have it), but not purely a semantic techni…

Are the city streets tolled?

Re: Dutch Railways offers unlimited off-peak train travel nationwide for €49/month

#100
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of abuse are you thinking of?

Ecological? You can be sure companies would somehow exploit ut for their services. It should cost at least enough to cover the energy expenses.

If the train was going to run regardless, and there isn't that high of a demand on this level of off-peak, adding the weight of a person or two is practically nothing to the rolling of the train.
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