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How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

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Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#21

Post by adrianN »

tough wrote: post #10
Shitty-kitty wrote: post #9

The U.S had the greatest rail network and then we built the Interstate Highway system and abandoned rail. Truth is that nobody funds multiple competing transportation network. Japan chose rail, we chose highways.

japan is a small island the US is one of the most extensive and biggest distance from population centers country on earth I tihnk that helps explain the feasiability of train on each country more than inherent choices

The US has several areas of high population density that have laughably bad rail networks.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#22

Post by trains39472 »

linguae wrote: post #13
Shitty-kitty wrote: post #9

The U.S had the greatest rail network and then we built the Interstate Highway system and abandoned rail. Truth is that nobody funds multiple competing transportation network. Japan chose rail, we chose highways.

Germany has both the Autobahn and rail.

Given the reputation of the phrase "getting deutsche bahn'ed", I think they chose the Autobahn.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#23

Post by cael450 »

tough wrote: post #10
Shitty-kitty wrote: post #9

The U.S had the greatest rail network and then we built the Interstate Highway system and abandoned rail. Truth is that nobody funds multiple competing transportation network. Japan chose rail, we chose highways.

japan is a small island the US is one of the most extensive and biggest distance from population centers country on earth I tihnk that helps explain the feasiability of train on each country more than inherent choices

It’s not just about size. Much of the U.S. would be cheaper to build rail networks because there is a lot of open, relatively flat land without dense building on it. Japan is very mountainous and has a lot of dense development, and it has to be more resilient in case of earthquakes.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#24

Post by sylos »

true_religion wrote: post #12
tough wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

japan is a small island the US is one of the most extensive and biggest distance from population centers country on earth I tihnk that helps explain the feasiability of train on each country more than inherent choices

Civil planning on that scale isn’t about feasibility but about what direction you want to shape the county in. A sparse railway system would leave parts of the country less populated by design as it’s simply harder to get to them. People would bunch up into cities and towns because they had to.

We had a railway powered country until it was torn down

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#25

Post by DANmode »

Liftyee wrote: post #3

A factor not mentioned is Japan's cultural sense of duty and honour. I don't think employees in the West generally feel such dedication or perfectionism towards their company but in Japan it helped make all these efficient and meticulous changes possible, and avoids issues of privatisation like neglecting maintenance / short term profit maximisation.

> A factor not mentioned is Japan's cultural sense of duty and honour. I don't think employees in the West generally feel such dedication or perfectionism towards their company

Diminishingly few.

It is a feedback loop.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#26

Post by socalgal2 »

It's always frustrating to read anything by most foreigners about Japanese trains.

There are around 100 train companies in Japan. JR is 7 of those 100. The other 93 are NOT JR. Drawing any conclusions about Japanese trains from inspecting 7% of them is just wrong.

The title, "How Japan's railways stayed one" is just false. They were never one, they are still not one.

Take Tokyo, off the top of my head there is Toei, Tobu, Odakyu, Keio, Seibu, Tokyu, Keikyu, Tokyo Metro, ... and JR

If you're in Shibuya. You can take JR (4 lines: Yamanote, Saikyo, Shinjuku-Shonan, N-EX), Keio (1 line: Inokashira), Eiden (3 lines: Ginza, Hanzomon, Fukutoshin), Toyku (2 lines: Den-en-toshi, Toyoko)

Or Osaka, there's Hanshin, Hankyu, Kentetsu, Nankai, ... and JR

Those others, except maybe 1, are all private, and have always bene private. Even JR's 7 are now private and they were originally private, there was a middle period where the government took them over. It was the period where they nearly went bankrupt, had extremely bad performance.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#27

Post by Klonoar »

socalgal2 wrote: post #26

It's always frustrating to read anything by most foreigners about Japanese trains. There are around 100 train companies in Japan. JR is 7 of those 100. The other 93 are NOT JR. Drawing any conclusions about Japanese trains from inspecting 7% of them is just wrong. The title, "How Japan's railways stayed one" is just false. They were never one, they are still not one. Take Tokyo, off the top of my head there is Toei,…

Tech industry needlessly idolizes the country, so you're unfortunately bound to read this slop until the heat death of the universe.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#28

Post by alephnerd »

Klonoar wrote: post #27
socalgal2 wrote: post #26

It's always frustrating to read anything by most foreigners about Japanese trains. There are around 100 train companies in Japan. JR is 7 of those 100. The other 93 are NOT JR. Drawing any conclusions about Japanese trains from inspecting 7% of them is just wrong. The title, "How Japan's railways stayed one" is just false. They were never one, they are still not one. Take Tokyo, off the top of my head there is Toei,…

Tech industry needlessly idolizes the country, so you're unfortunately bound to read this slop until the heat death of the universe.

It's an age thing. Most HNers are in their 30s-50s so would have been impressed by Japan in the 1990s-2000s.

Japan is a decent country but everyone who writes about it tends to overindex on the posh parts of Tokyo.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#29

Post by tjpnz »

alephnerd wrote: post #28
Klonoar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech industry needlessly idolizes the country, so you're unfortunately bound to read this slop until the heat death of the universe.

It's an age thing. Most HNers are in their 30s-50s so would have been impressed by Japan in the 1990s-2000s. Japan is a decent country but everyone who writes about it tends to overindex on the posh parts of Tokyo.

As someone who's lived in Tokyo for 10 years it's largely met my expectations. My living situation is far more modern than the western country I'm from, even if my suburb looks a bit plain (my only real complaint is that there's too much concrete and not enough trees).

Would even go as far as to say many comments about the place being trapped in the 80s or 90s don't match reality. For instance, the only time I've ever been asked to use a fax machine was by a US company.

Re: How Japan's railways stayed one while splitting apart

#30

Post by bombcar »

adrianN wrote: post #18
linguae wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has both the Autobahn and rail.

The German rail network is chronically underfunded and Germany is completely incapable of building new lines. Per capita spending on rail pales in comparison to e.g. Switzerland and Austria.

Germany is roughly the size of Montana, with the population of almost CA and TX combined.
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