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Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

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Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#51

Post by Groxx »

enragedcacti wrote: post #49
jolmg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case. Why try to contort the technology for something it's not good at, instead of using a more appropriate technology like transflective LCDs? Eink isn't the only option for reflective displays. If you increase the power use of eink to get better refresh rates, I imagine you…

I'm pretty sure e-ink has a much higher ceiling for reflectance than TLCDs/RLCDs, so you'll be able to use it comfortably without a frontlight in a lot more situations which could more than make up for increased power usage. I think they are also naturally better in terms of glare compared to any type of LCD.

Viewing angles are also fantastic compared to almost all T/R LCDs - they tend to be fairly directional. It's a great display tech for many things that don't need 60+fps.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#52

Post by alex-a-soto »

adolph wrote: post #46
jolmg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current crop of controllers are optimized for low power, which fits the e-reader use case but that is not optimal for the interactive use case. Why try to contort the technology for something it's not good at, instead of using a more appropriate technology like transflective LCDs? Eink isn't the only option for reflective displays. If you increase the power use of eink to get better refresh rates, I imagine you…

It isn't clear to me that eink's underlying display technology isn't good at the interactive computing use case so much as the implementations aren't optimized for it. There could be a position where more power than an eink reader is used but still far less than traditional active displays since unchanged pixels aren't driven.

That's how I think about it too.

E-readers are vertically integrated devices: the hardware, software, UI, and refresh behavior are all tailored around reading. E-ink tablets like reMarkable are similar, but optimized around writing and annotation.

A traditional monitor is much more general-purpose, so it doesn't get the same kind of end-to-end optimization for the display medium. I think there's room for an in-between category: a more interactive e-ink device where both the hardware and software are designed around the strengths and limits of the panel.

There's some related work happening in this direction:

https://nlnet.nl/project/epd-wayland/

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#53

Post by afandian »

abrowne wrote: post #23
afandian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pebble is back, with MIP reflective LCD. I have one. It's great. https://repebble.com/

Bangle.js 2 ( https://banglejs.com/ ) also has a transflective LCD. It's very fun product with a great community. Bangle.js 3 is being discussed: https://github.com/orgs/espruino/discussions/7341

Cool! I didn’t know it was transreflective. Do you have one? How’s the contrast?

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#54

Post by Groxx »

abrowne wrote: post #23
afandian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pebble is back, with MIP reflective LCD. I have one. It's great. https://repebble.com/

Bangle.js 2 ( https://banglejs.com/ ) also has a transflective LCD. It's very fun product with a great community. Bangle.js 3 is being discussed: https://github.com/orgs/espruino/discussions/7341

Bangle.js 2 is the only smartwatch I've kept since Pebble. It's definitely not a polished experience, so I can only recommend with pretty strong caveats, but it has the main things I want from a tool: notifications, long battery life, easily-visible screen in all conditions, and isn't a giant slab on my wrist that gets in the way.

Nothing else has satisfied that so far, after trying nearly a dozen. They've all had flaky connections, bad battery life, and/or screens that need me to shield from the sun sometimes. And the apps they require, holy crap are they bad. Gadgetbridge isn't shiny but it at least lets you control what you need.

I truly wish it was button-based though. Touchscreens on your wrist suck so bad.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#55

Post by throwway120385 »

imglorp wrote: post #24
good8675309 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not bad considering this is a niche specialty product and cutting edge. The price will come down if the demand and market grow. Assuming raw hardware costs stop rising

Will it? The whole e-ink market seems like it has never priced flexibly.

It never priced flexibly because the company that makes it kept a total stranglehold on the IP through patents and basically requires you to buy both the panel and the controller from them. I think it's actually quite a simple technology but I think it's tough for them to get the economies of scale they really need to be competitive as a display technology. I'm starting to see the older-style black and white eInk displays used as Electronic Shelf Labels more often now and I think it has to do with the patents finally expiring so you can buy the components from more than one supplier. The technology they're replacing, paper labels, costs thousands of dollars per week per store to update and more so when there are sale prices. The eInk displays cut most of those costs in favor of capital and then once in a blue moon battery replacements.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#56

Post by Groxx »

afandian wrote: post #53
abrowne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bangle.js 2 ( https://banglejs.com/ ) also has a transflective LCD. It's very fun product with a great community. Bangle.js 3 is being discussed: https://github.com/orgs/espruino/discussions/7341

Cool! I didn’t know it was transreflective. Do you have one? How’s the contrast?

A bit low when not in a relatively bright area (say a house during the day without lights on), but that's largely solved by the backlight or a small tilt to catch light better. And in direct sunlight it's excellent.

The display isn't as nice as Pebble Time (fewer colors, more directional, overall slightly dimmer) but it's more than functional enough. Transflective is obviously the right choice for watches, I don't know why everything else has gone for phone-like panels that are often unreadable and kill battery life.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#57

Post by ndiddy »

acc_297 wrote: post #15
user_7832 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had the 600-odd dollars, I'd absolutely buy this. It's a damn shame it's so expensive.

I think the 600 dollar price is more than double the price of the same diplay as a mass-produced product it's a price for enthusiasts of the technology and it's open source so nothing stops a bigger producer of copying the exact technology with institutional funding and manufacturing expertise

There is no mass market product with the same specifications. The closest equivalents from established companies are the Dasung Paperlike 13K and Bigme B13, both of which cost the same or more than the Modos.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#58

Post by ndiddy »

I've seen these portable e-ink monitors available for nearly 10 years now, but this one seems to be the first that's responsive enough for general usage, which is a big step forward. Out of curiosity, if anyone here has one, what do you use it for? There must be something people are using them for if they've been a product niche for so long, but I can't think of what I would do with a standalone 13 inch e-ink monitor.

Re: Modos Color Monitor Pushes E-Paper Displays Further

#59

Post by abrowne »

Groxx wrote: post #54
abrowne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bangle.js 2 ( https://banglejs.com/ ) also has a transflective LCD. It's very fun product with a great community. Bangle.js 3 is being discussed: https://github.com/orgs/espruino/discussions/7341

Bangle.js 2 is the only smartwatch I've kept since Pebble. It's definitely not a polished experience, so I can only recommend with pretty strong caveats, but it has the main things I want from a tool : notifications, long battery life, easily-visible screen in all conditions, and isn't a giant slab on my wrist that gets in the way. Nothing else has satisfied that so far, after trying nearly a dozen. They've all had f…

> Touchscreens on your wrist suck so bad.

I don't mind myself, and especially in winter with mittens on I can – and often do – use my nose :-D

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