Live data from Hacker News

Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

bluewin.ch

91–100 of 1001 posts

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#91
post #58
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every SMR startup is failing. The more they progress, the more they revise their costs upwards. SMR make as much sense as space datacenters. You can gaslight investors, you can gaslight HN, you can gaslight a national parliament full of lobbyists, but you can't gaslight thermodynamics.

What are the challenges they face?

[dead]

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#92
post #22
post #5

I wish Italy did the same. We still have to deal with the consequences of a referendum hold not so long after che Chernobyl accident which made it illegal to build and operate nuclear power plants.

It is absolutely ridiculous: of all countries, Italy has totally the means to rely only on solar and batteries. You even have the industrial prowess to make it all in the country step by step, whereas nuclear reactors are such humongous engineering projects that building the capacity is very out of reach. Edit: and with the Mediterranean and rivers warming severely - and the latter even suffering from draught - how a…

Solar, wind, and even hydroelectricity are too dependent upon the environment to make up the entire electricity generation capacity of any major industrial country. With renewables, even with batteries, the actual production is within a range. Couple that with demand also being in a range you get uncomfortable possibilities at play. And while colder water is definitely preferable for cooling, I'd have to imagine that if the bodies of water were actually becoming too hot to cool a nuclear reactor system there'd be bigger problems than energy production.

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#93
post #76

Citizens should take note that no nuclear plants are ever built without many billions in state loans and guarantees. It's not a cheap source of electricity, it's a way for someone to get money from taxpayers to subsidize their business.

Is that meaningfully different than modern coal and natural gas plants?

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#95
post #76

Citizens should take note that no nuclear plants are ever built without many billions in state loans and guarantees. It's not a cheap source of electricity, it's a way for someone to get money from taxpayers to subsidize their business.

Energy security is something I expect the government to invest my tax dollars in especially energy generation that is resilient to international politics and reduced carbon emissions.

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#96

It's a world-wide competition to generate the most expensive electricity! The record is currently held by Vogtle in Georgia US, but Ontario Canada is trying to take the crown by spending $500B on nuclear.

Is there a cleaner, more consistent technology for baseload? At a certain point, dollars are funny money if you are destroying the environment to save a few now by generating baseload with a carbon-producing tech. Of course, let’s build the safest and most efficient nuclear that we can, but “its capex is too high” is not a compelling argument to me. And to be clear: renewables should form as much of the capacity as p…

"Baseload" is load, not generation. It's not necessary -- for example the small northern grids that only have diesel generators operate fine even though they have no generators that don't have the capacity for quick cycling.

Baseload was a cost optimization. Back in the day it was cheaper to build coal & nuclear plants that took days to power on. Somebody figured out that if a grid was built of a mix of those cheaper plants and more expensive plants that could start up quicker, it would lower costs. The typical grid was baseload coal and gas peakers. But ~20 years ago gas peakers became cheaper than baseload coal and any need or desire for baseload generation went away.

China is building a lot of coal plants to complement their solar buildout. Notably these are not base load plants. Their new coal plants do not run 24/7, they only run at night.

Similarly, many new nuclear plant designs are not base load designs; they are designs that can be safely and quickly turned on and off.

P.S. the correct term for generation is "non-dispatchable", not "baseload"

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#97
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French part of Switzerland is much more left leaning, so I can expect more anti-nuclear sentiment on this side. But the sentiment of nuclear depends purely on which party you vote for, I don't think the language itself has an impact. But, Germany's decision after Fukushima to close down all nuclear reactors has had a strong impact on the 2017 votation that banned nuclear in Switzerland. So I guess the influence is th…

So French Swiss or German Swiss aren't going to be consuming French or German news media? If so that's refreshing compared to Canadians and Brits who constantly try to butt into American media and culture wars (eg. Rebel News, UnHerd) and vice versa (eg. X)

Switzerland's multilingual situation might look primed for a balkanized culture war, especially if you are coming from a place where that is common. But 1) it's a country of 10m people and 2) the national identity is centered around being unified despite language differences.

Of course people make jokes and remarks about "those people" who speak a different language. But "those people" are probably 1h away by train, are probably coworkers, and their language was taught in your school (even if some didn't bother to learn).

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#98
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So French Swiss or German Swiss aren't going to be consuming French or German news media? If so that's refreshing compared to Canadians and Brits who constantly try to butt into American media and culture wars (eg. Rebel News, UnHerd) and vice versa (eg. X)

We have national media (German: srf, French/Italian: rts, Romanche: rtr), people consume that, and a few medias that have multiple language versions like 20minutes. We also have a few language specific medias (German: NZZ, Tagesanzeiger, Blick, ..., French: Le Temps, 24 heures, La Liberté, ...), but I think most people consume Swiss media, especially when Swiss politics and local afairs are absolutely not covered by…

The funny thing is that people know more about what is happening in the neighbouring countries than in the other parts of Switzerland. The "national" media is very divided and only covers French-speaking regions in French, German-speaking in German, etc. as if they were local media.

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#99
post #76

Citizens should take note that no nuclear plants are ever built without many billions in state loans and guarantees. It's not a cheap source of electricity, it's a way for someone to get money from taxpayers to subsidize their business.

That's what infrastructure is, yes.

Re: Swiss parliament lifts ban on new nuclear power plants

#100

It's a world-wide competition to generate the most expensive electricity! The record is currently held by Vogtle in Georgia US, but Ontario Canada is trying to take the crown by spending $500B on nuclear.

Is there a cleaner, more consistent technology for baseload? At a certain point, dollars are funny money if you are destroying the environment to save a few now by generating baseload with a carbon-producing tech. Of course, let’s build the safest and most efficient nuclear that we can, but “its capex is too high” is not a compelling argument to me. And to be clear: renewables should form as much of the capacity as p…

we don't need reliable "base load" but peakers - with more renewables more than ever.

Baseload won't be price competitive with renewables in average or shiny/windy conditions ever

Post reply on HN