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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#61

Post by e12e »

SoKamil wrote: post #31

Outlook for Mac is surprisingly good, though. Every interaction feels (and is) native. Kudos to the team. I think this is same team that maintains Office Suite for Mac. I hope to see Teams for Mac in the future. Current Teams app is dogshit.

Surprisingly good is a stretch. Barley adequate more like it.

Now that they've hidden mail access behind oauth (imap and SMTP, additionally SMTP behind global default off policy) and graph api behind oauth2 - it looks like they don't have to worry about real mail clients competing.

Actually fighting [f] to get mail in/out working with freescout right now - and having had learn more than I care to about o365 and PowerShell etc - I wonder how hard it would be to write a couple of stand alone tools to get fetch/send/sync mail working with o365 and local maildir - to get my/sup/any sane Mua to really work with o365/exchange/outlook.

Then there's calendar and teams to deal with..

[f] Thankfully our o365 reseller does most of the fighting - I'm happy to not have tenant-wide admin in AD/entra/whatever kerberized LDAP is called today.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#62

Post by herbst »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #55
patates wrote: post #8

> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.

It's crystal clear Microsoft simply can't make good software at all anymore. Vendor lock and inertia are their biggest selling points.

When was the last time they did? Buying existing companies does not count

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#63

Post by vladvasiliu »

patates wrote: post #8

> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.

IME running the new outlook in an actual web browser (through outlook.office.com) is waaay faster than the heavy (heh) client.

Bonus points for it running fine on Linux, too. I understand there are some missing features compared to the old one (can't recall which), but for basic corpo emailing it works perfectly for me.

I now have 0 reasons to use Windows at work, so, for once, I'll nonironically cheer MS for a job well done!

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#64

Post by stackskipton »

delusional wrote: post #35
archildress wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure seems like all this fancy Copilot coding help they have would've helped develop a better email client.

It is. Classic outlook didn't intermingle ads into your inbox. That feature alone makes new outlook much better. Written on my windows phone 7 series 7 - Satya Nadella

Depending on if you have Microsoft365, you don't get ads either. It's not ads, it's fact that browsers are still not native performance to Win32 application. However, companies hate maintaining multiple applications (Win32/MacOS) and Sysadmin at companies hate maintaining Win32 Applications as well so everyone starts building WebView2.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#65

Post by herbst »

instakill wrote: post #29

new Google homepage takes [many] seconds to do what classic Google did instantly

Just tried it. It loads instantly and then loads some other stuff I never seen before. However for me the main thing still loads instantly.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#66

Post by sznio »

archildress wrote: post #30
patates wrote: post #8

> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.

Sure seems like all this fancy Copilot coding help they have would've helped develop a better email client.

I think it really could. You can vibe-code efficient software, if you care.

Microsoft's problems are organizational. A developer can't actually do shit correctly when constantly being pushed to deliver more.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#67

Post by zaphar »

sgt wrote: post #45
robertlagrant wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely make a webview app that starts as quickly as most native thing (sub-1s start). We used Tauri and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

That's a pretty simple view of native app vs web. Web will always have a lot of baggage that native apps simply won't have, layers and layers of abstractions that still needs to load. It's true that a blank canvas loaded as a web view will start fast, though. But in practice, when web applications grow - performance tends to take a hit, and the developers also tend to be careless with resources.

Web developers are not magically worse at this than native devs. See: much of the windows OS lately. The performance of a web view app is more to do with the quality of the devs than the platform it's built on.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#68

Post by BLKNSLVR »

fg137 wrote: post #26

The biggest issue I have with new outlook is meeting notifications (reminders) on Windows. I see a freaking loading screen with the Outlook logo for 5 seconds before the window is updated with the meeting name along with a button to dismiss it. Yes that's everything in there. How does Microsoft think this is ok?

Clicking a Teams meeting link from Outlook Calendar opens the pre-meeting screen to allow enable/disable of camera/microphone, plus it also loads up a little reminder window with Join and Dismiss buttons _over the top_ of the Join button of the pre-meeting screen.

Every time.

And then there's the fact that, if Teams wasn't already loaded, you can be up five minutes late for a meeting waiting for Teams to roll out of bed despite having clicked Join bang on meeting time.

I don't have the most up to date system at work, but it feels like 90s wait-computing.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#69

Post by reaperducer »

m132 wrote: post #12

And to think that the "old" Outlook's splash screen is there for a reason: it used to take a while to open before SSDs became commonplace! Windows in general used to be usable on HDDs; SSDs would blow everyone's pants off making everything open instantly. These days we have 20+ Gbps SSDs without the AHCI latency tax and they're no longer enough to open an e-mail. THAT'S how low the ball has been dropped.

It's not just Windows. It's everything Microsoft.

What steams my clams is that I can press Reply in Outlook and be halfway through the first sentence of my message before the reply window even opens. (M4 Pro)

Almost every time I use Outlook, I have to rewrite my first sentence because half of it was typed before Outlook was finished doing whatever it does in the background. This doesn't happen with other mail clients on the same machine.

It's not 1982 with 8 character keyboard buffers. I shouldn't be able to type faster than a computer can handle the input.

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