Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 497 posts

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#411

Post by thiht »

SapporoChris wrote: post #385
hydrogen7800 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind. "Some nerd couldn't use their nerd phone." What incentive does a dealer have to know or care about this?

I wonder what a Venn Diagram of people that use GrapheneOS and people that wish to purchase a Volkswagen vehicle looks like. As of April 2026, the operating system had approximately 400K active users. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrapheneOS I wish that Volkswagen would care about this, but I suspect they have little incentive to do so.

Volkswagen has a 10% market share in Europe (25% if you consider the whole group: Audi, Cupra, etc.)

Assuming 25% (might be overinflated) of GrapheneOS are European, that’s 10000 European GrapheneOS users who would buy a Volkswagen car (assuming an unbiased distribution of GrapheneOS users, which is probably not the case though).

I don’t think Volkswagen is in a strong position to say they don’t care about 10000 sales in Europe only.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#412

Post by Obscurity4340 »

xenocratus wrote: post #113
user3939382 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW didn’t seem too concerned with compliance when they were rigging their pollution tests.

They'd have you know they actually cared a bit too much about said compliance itself.

The Lady doth comply too much!

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#413

Post by akimbostrawman »

doublerabbit wrote: post #204
altairprime wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would never ever trust Linux from a vendor. If it's not installed by myself, I refuse to use it. I bet you would, though, if the built OS image were 100% reproducible except for the signature. Once you have a fully reproducible Linux OS build, you can literally copy paste the cryptosig from the vendor and it will work with the image you built yourself from source that you inspected yourself. Then it’s impossible…

> I bet you would, though, if the built OS image were 100% reproducible except for the signature. CryptoSecure, depends how it's done but again neither can be trusted. Especially when you have no control over the silicon running the OS. I don't trust Linux now. Microsoft got its mits with WSL. RedHat sold-out to IBM and Debian got in bed with Canonical. Arch & Valve I might trust slightly more. They've got to make mo…

>They've got to make money somehow /shrug

They do with enterprise but not the way they do with consumers. There is no point selling data for ads on couple thousand servers for pennies when they make millions with licensing and support.

All the code microsoft, redhat and canonical contribute to linux is open source anyways.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#414

Post by akimbostrawman »

lenkite wrote: post #166
jasonvorhe wrote: post #57

It's not your car anymore, you're just renting someone else's hardware and access to their restricted platforms. Some recent cars even deny starting your car engine if the always on camera facing the driver thinks the driver isn't capable of driving "safely". This is the WEF future your conspiracy uncle was telling you about during family gatherings. Well.

The conspiracy uncle was right after all. "You will own nothing and be happy" - WEF Prime Objective.

The difference between conspiracy theory and established fact are 10 years time.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#415

Post by jesterson »

bjackman wrote: post #408

I have no plans to buy a car but I'm curious: what is the sensible choice for technical people with a reasonable amount of money? I rent cars whenever I travel to the US and I've never not been pissed off by a car's software. If you live in a country that makes it practica/affordable and you don't need too much range, I wonder if buying an old car with a broken engine and paying someone to do an electric conversion i…

> I'm curious: what is the sensible choice for technical people with a reasonable amount of money?

I am probably the extreme minority, but I prefer cars with as little "tech" as possible. I don't need "drive assist" and sorts.

All my cars are 10+ old benzes, Nissans, Toyotas. All under good maintenance routine so giving me very little headache.

I had all sorts of stupid issues with modern cars while renting. One toyota scared the crap out of me while it imagined some pedestrian and yelled with all signs while I was going 100+ km/h on highway. Horrible crap

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#416

Post by nicce »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #338
sufficientsoup wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive does a dealer have to know or care why a sale fell through? Bizarre question

I'm thinking that the effort required to make that one sale in a thousand is not worth it. The 999 others didn't complain about that.

I think that it is not fair comparison. More likely X % changed their mind and did not go through the purchase. Nobody except this one told the reason? If only this is said aloud, dealers might even make assumptions that maybe others did the decision for same reason, but just did not say it.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#417

Post by epolanski »

afarah1 wrote: post #36

Driving a rental car in Germany almost makes me cheer for the ongoing bankruptcy of their auto industry. It really needs a full reset at this point. Sad thing is EU law mandates for a modem in the car as well as intrusive driving aids that actually make driving less safe by constantly driving your attention away from the road[1]. So there is no hope to get a minimally decent car in Europe in the near future, unless a…

I rented a VW EV (the ID 5) 1 year ago in Germany and had no issues.

The driving aids can be annoying (especially when there are works on highways or similar and you need to drift beyond lines but lane assist wants to keep going in that direction) but they actually saved me from crashing the car in the parking!

I completely did not see a small wall behind the car and the car emergency broke before I made major damage.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#418

Post by epolanski »

broadsidepicnic wrote: post #218
amyjess wrote: post #150

I'm sorry, but what? Why do cars need apps now?

Well, I didn't know it before I bought tesla (and have since sold it), but it's really convenient to pair the phone to the car and let it act as a key. I never had to worry about getting the keys, I just took my phone and it opened the doors. Also I have to say, setting charge times remotely is mighty handy, if one pays the market/pool prices for electricity which fluctuate from hour to hour.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it sounds like a reasonable reason.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#419

Post by microtonal »

tadfisher wrote: post #369
Perseids wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? I'd understand (though not approve) them tightening down everything about the car firmware to the max. They are responsible for the app, sure (it's a "digital element"), but they aren't responsible for the OS the app runs on. The CRA should not be used as an excuse to enact stupid restrictions.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of these things, you cannot verify an app is unmodified without also verifying the OS running it is also unmodified. So if VW decides that only their unmodified app may access APIs, then they kind of are stuck verifying the OS. They can, given basic competence in SW engineering, also verify against GrapheneOS' published release keys. The reason they don't is the same reason Google clo…

The reason they don't is the same reason Google closed my ticket asking them to include Graphene keys in Play Integrity checks: they don't care.

I think the reasons are very different. VW maybe doesn't care. Google does it because it would undermine their stronghold over the platform. If they would allow GrapheneOS, what would block Samsung or another OEM from also sandboxing Play Services and not preinstalling a bunch of Google apps and requesting the same?

This shows why attestation is in the wrong hands. Whether a particular device is attested should be purely based on the security of the device (which would also exclude a bunch of certified devices that Google will happily attest now), not on maintaining a smartphone duopoly.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#420

Post by microtonal »

h4kunamata wrote: post #351

VW won't be missed! Cars weren't meant to be computers on wheel. I bought a 2025 Suzuki because it is a manual and there is no firmware update, no internet connection, GOS Android Auto is all I get and only if my phone connects with the car. It is so weird how companies in 2026 still making such bad mistakes.

Connected cars can be convenient though. E.g. when doing larger trips, we usually take a break when we need to charge (get some tea, food, etc.) and it's really handy to get a notification when the car is done charging.

Also in the heat of the summer, it's nice to be able to start the air conditioning a few minutes before leaving.

Post reply on HN