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How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
11–20 of 189 posts
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#12What would need to be true for SF to replicate this? Would we need alignment at the mayor, state assembly and SFMTA levels?
It is difficult. I think the key is that Spain has a large corps of civil engineers working for the government. They plan all projects with great detail and then oversee their execution. Agile regulations against NIMBYism and a world-class civil engineering industry with HQs in Madrid also help. A good analogy is to ask what would need to be true for Madrid to replicate the AI hub in SF? Great VC, top engineers, cert…
> I think the key is that Spain has a large corps of civil engineers working for the government.
I agree with this. In general jobs with the government are seen as high quality jobs from my understanding. Another commenter mentioned that the high salaries in the private sector in the US brain drain away from the US public sector. In Spain salaries are much lower, so this is perhaps less of an issue in certain fields.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#13Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even states like Mississippi and Iowa have low housing costs and wages much higher than Spain.
If you want to do a real comparison then you have to include the cost of healthcare.
Yes that is another reason, high healthcare costs for employing workers means higher construction costs in the USA.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#15What would need to be true for SF to replicate this? Would we need alignment at the mayor, state assembly and SFMTA levels?
Aggressive deployment of eminent domain and exemption from CEPA and all the other “think of the children” NIMBY rules.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#16> Unlike infrastructure projects in Britain or America, which are heavily reliant on external consultants to handle all stages of the project, this group of well-paid in-house engineers led much of the Madrid Metro expansion. The team stayed largely the same throughout the different projects, meaning that they were able to learn from their experience and apply it to future projects. Imagine that: building expertise i…
In India metro is either built by private companies in a Public Private Partnership Or by govt orgs by contracting it out. Both styles have resulted in massive delays so much so that it has become a meme that metro will be inaugurated 100yrs into the future Maybe if Govt hired actual engineers like they do for railways then metros will be prioritised
India has the most interesting construction projects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRDsIjG3g8
I guess this is what vibe coding in the real world looks like.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#17[deleted]
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#18What would need to be true for SF to replicate this? Would we need alignment at the mayor, state assembly and SFMTA levels?
Aggressive deployment of eminent domain and exemption from CEPA and all the other “think of the children” NIMBY rules.
I understand housing construction, but why would a NIMBY be against metro construction? Being close to a metro station means real estate prices skyrocket and that's what NIMBYs are after.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#19Meanwhile, bay area has companies with market cap of 30T (50T?), has nonexistent/incompatible and the slowest public transit.
1) BART 'works' for a subset of the population.
2) ACE train is one route only, from Stockton to San Jose.
3) Caltrain is one straight line. Caltrain has a bullet train that takes an hour for ~20-30 miles.
4) There is a ferry service for some parts of north bay.
There are probably dozens of other bus systems and ferries and what not, all incompatible and disconnected.
When people from bay area (and the big tech companies) tell you they are the greatest minds on the planet solving (or going to solve) world problems, look at their public transit and think. Then weep/laugh.
Source: I lived in the North bay, East bay and South bay.
Re: How Madrid built its metro cheaply (2024)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aggressive deployment of eminent domain and exemption from CEPA and all the other “think of the children” NIMBY rules.
I understand housing construction, but why would a NIMBY be against metro construction? Being close to a metro station means real estate prices skyrocket and that's what NIMBYs are after.
* Disruption while it is being built
* Fear that a metro will bring in "undesirables" (i.e. poor / lower-class people)
* Concerns about noise (whether real or imagined)
* Some people just hate change