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U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

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Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#821

Post by edg5000 »

xnx wrote: post #776
rurp wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American Empire is gone and not coming back. It rose in a very different world and once these competitive advantages in science and elsewhere have been squandered they won't ever get back to the same level; there's too much competition from other countries now and too little faith that the US won't do this again. As much as I hate it, we're heading into a more violent and less prosperous world. Whatever that morp…

American exceptionalism is regressing to the mean.

@josephg Being from the EU myself, I'm surprised in the same way you are. There is certainly something good going on there as well, at least when looking at certain technologies in isolation, where the US leads.

How come there's still no better desktop processor than Intel/AMD on a per core basis? This is just one example. Nobody's made anything at that level still.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#822

Post by sltkr »

jimbokun wrote: post #803
sltkr wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is forcing prospective academics to pledge alegiance to the American woke left anything _but_ political? DEI statements were nothing more than obligatory loyalty oaths.

So now we just require them to pledge allegiance to Trump instead.

No, there is no such requirement.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#823

Post by jhbadger »

Vaslo wrote: post #720
Blackstrat wrote: post #395

The government can't fund everything. Too much of the budget is tied up in transfer and interest payments squeezing out other more viable research. The federal government doesn't have unlimited funds. Something has to give.

You’ll get downvoted to hell for this comment but it’s a legitimate concern, especially as Europe throws more of its money into socialist nonsense. It’s time for Europe to start picking up more of the tab, NATO included.

All of Europe is capitalist since 1989. What is "socialist nonsense" according to you? Nationalized health care?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#824

Post by kelvinjps10 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #758
rbtprograms wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

americans pretending they aren't immigrants by using the term expat always cracks me up

The terms "expat" and "immigrant" are not synonyms. There is a material semantic distinction in American English. Most Americans that live overseas tend to be expats rather than immigrants. Those two terms don't convey the same meaning.

a person who temporarily or permanently lives and works in a country other than their native country. I mean, some Mexicans and other latin americans go to the US to make money and buy a home back in their countries. And still by they're not called expats?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#825

Post by wredcoll »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #728
wredcoll wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump's ballroom. Trump's "irs lawsuit settlement fund" The salaries of all the lawyers being paid to justify illegal and discriminatory executive orders. ICE's budget. TSA's budget. "Border Wall" construction costs. Should I go on?

Most of those things a tiny rounding error. Interest and social services are the only thing the government actually spends money on.

I know it's fashionable to say stuff like this, but you know what's also a rounding error by that logic? THE SCIENTIFIC GRANTS WE'RE DISCUSSING.

Like, sure, 600million for a ballroom is small compared to the annual interest payments but it could fund, dunno, at least a dozen scientists. Maybe even 2 dozen! Add in the 1.6 billion dollars trumo was trying to embezzle from the irs and we could get a couple dozen more studies going.

If that number is too small and trifling for you, how about the $80+ billion dollar budget for ice? Think we could afford a few studies with that?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#826

Post by goldfishgold »

jubilanti wrote: post #644
noosphr wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a previous project I ended up talking with a scientist who couldn't shut up about how she was 1/4th Indigenous and how many grants that could open for our collaboration. If I wanted racial purity in my collaborators it get a time machine to 1930s Germany. That someone was doing this in 2022 was extremely off-putting. That they were getting government support because of it makes the me not care much about the fact…

Imagine that your people had the land you'd been living on for countless generations invaded, taken from them after a bloody campaign, where the survivors were forced into poverty in concentration camps, where they could not leave, where many women had their fallopian tubes tied without even their knowledge, where children were beaten for speaking their language, where they were intentionally and deliberately kept in…

No I don’t support any kind of assistance for the descendants of Holocaust victims. Yes, of course the Holocaust was a vile disgrace, but it was almost a century ago. At some point you have to draw a line under it and allow the descendants — who in many cases never knew the relevant ancestors — to live their own lives.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#828

Post by runako »

realityfactchex wrote: post #515
awesome_dude wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It disheartens me a great deal to see how the US (in particular, but they are not alone) has turned its back on good science, largely, but not exclusively, on the back of populist politics. Science has had waves, and people have over pushed its advances (for profit) and hidden some of its shortcomings (we can point to a lot of problems) and is going through a massive reckoning where its influence is being curtailed.…

I think we agree. I certainly agree with what you've written. You may not agree with my opinions, and that's fine. In any case, you've inspired me to post the original reply I had composed for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48575653 (the immediate parent to your comment), below. This is what I wanted to say, before then deciding to just be grateful for the sharing of the parent's perspective: """ I'd frame AI a…

> Not just sort of expensive (though not very, compared with other budget items). But more importantly: inefficient (to put it nicely). And more importantly still: often (perhaps more often than not!) plain wrong. And that means, sadly: fairly/largely ineffective (degree depending on the domain)

This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of "science." Science is not experiments and papers. Science is a set of methods by which we discover truth.

I will agree: if you knew in advance which experiments to do, or which needed fewer resources, you could make science more efficient. Pharma could save a ton of money by not testing all the stupid compounds that don't work. We could abandon safety protocols and simply not make mistakes that harm people. Rocket companies could simply start by designing the working rocket on the first try instead of making all the failures first. Physicists should just model reality accurately instead of spending money building giant particle accelerators to check how reality works. These are all good ideas, and I am sure there are many more!

In the Land of Theory, there are any number of ways to make science more efficient and always right. You can guarantee yourself a Nobel prize if you can demonstrate how to run real science in the the Land of Theory.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#829

Post by annzabelle »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #524
agumonkey wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

russia: brain drain usa: brain drain where is everybody going ?

Canada, Europe, China.

How much is this actually happening? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but the net migration flows haven't changed much. British Columbia did a big push to bring in American medical staff, and have only had a couple hundred move so far. Compare that to the number of Canadians moving south on TN visas, and I'm not sure it's significant.

I am saying this as someone who pursued Canadian citizenship by descent and moved to New Zealand in the last year, so it's definitely happening some, but my impression so far is that the total number of people who actually make the move is small. Most people who are skilled enough for an overseas employer to jump through hoops to put them on a visa have more lucrative jobs available in the US that are closer to home without all of the downsides of emigration.

I would believe that a lot of dual citizens or skilled immigrants to the US are moving home.

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