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Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

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Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#81

Post by felooboolooomba »

Chance-Device wrote: post #66
felooboolooomba wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often construct full sentences in my head I've only ever heard that associated with schizophrenia, but I don't even know if that's true or not.

Haha, I found this genuinely funny. It’s called an internal monologue. Google tells me that it’s the majority position with 30 to 50 percent not having one. Personally, I find it very difficult to understand how people could not think in words, like you were speaking to another person. Obviously you also have mental imagery and sound etc, so not everything is just words. Internal speech is one channel of thought, but…

> Obviously you also have mental imagery

I personally don't since I suffer from aphantasia. Perhaps I also suffer from not having an internal monologue?! I do think in words but not in complete sentences, it kind of happens much faster.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#82

Post by felooboolooomba »

Jevon23 wrote: post #57
felooboolooomba wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often construct full sentences in my head I've only ever heard that associated with schizophrenia, but I don't even know if that's true or not.

It might be correlated with neurodivergence. But it’s also just correlated with high verbal ability in general, presumably. I find it quite natural to think in complete structured sentences, and it’s often perplexed me why other people seem to find this concept so alien. And no I’m not schizophrenic.

> And no I’m not schizophrenic.

Which of you? :)

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#83

Post by AmazingEveryDay »

innerconvo wrote: post #59
crims0n wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a difference between having an inner monologue, and imagining a conversation with another person in your head.

Created a throwaway for this, but is this not what people do? Not so much imagining a conversation in your head, but playing through a conversation with "the other side" of the coin (be it an idea, plan, problem, solution etc) which are both yourself if that makes sense. Is this not what the inner monologue to yourself is? Your inner is conversing with your outer monologue. Hard to explain. Would consider myself to b…

> Created a throwaway for this, but is this not what people do?

I think it's okay, unless you converse online with your throwaways.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#84

Post by MaysonL »

slwvx wrote: post #27
Havoc wrote: post #20

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. It's not unlike what people like PG say about writing improving thinking...it's the being forced to go from fuzzy directional notions to something you can put on paper in that will stand up to critiqu…

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. I often construct full sentences in my head. And have conversations with my mental model of some other person. In full sentences

Different people’s minds work very differently. More differently than most people imagine.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#85

Post by MaysonL »

Jevon23 wrote: post #57
felooboolooomba wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often construct full sentences in my head I've only ever heard that associated with schizophrenia, but I don't even know if that's true or not.

It might be correlated with neurodivergence. But it’s also just correlated with high verbal ability in general, presumably. I find it quite natural to think in complete structured sentences, and it’s often perplexed me why other people seem to find this concept so alien. And no I’m not schizophrenic.

Then again, different people’s minds work very differently. My verbal SAT was low 790’s, yet some of my best thinking is purely kinesthetic.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#86

Post by theendisney »

Something funny i discover: i had thoughts or tried to explain something decades ago and made a drawing. Some of these are just a circle with some arrows. Turns out it is really hard to make a drawing bad enough that you dont know what it is. It sometimes works better than even a written description.

So you can just doodle in a notebook and tell yourself you've written it down. If you look at it regularly im sure recall will be even more perfect.

If you dont write anything down you wont be alle to access an orderly array of thoughs.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#87

Post by pessimizer »

I don't really buy any explanation here. The reason why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone is because when I'm alone I'll loop a lot more.

My reactions to thoughts that I myself have had are stereotyped and repetitive (every reaction is typical of me.) Reactions to me that come from another person are going to be different than those, and in turn stimulate me differently. Thinking tends to be an enumeration (then elimination) of possibilities, and that random input helps with the enumeration part by keeping me out of local minima.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#88

Post by jackyinger »

theendisney wrote: post #86

Something funny i discover: i had thoughts or tried to explain something decades ago and made a drawing. Some of these are just a circle with some arrows. Turns out it is really hard to make a drawing bad enough that you dont know what it is. It sometimes works better than even a written description. So you can just doodle in a notebook and tell yourself you've written it down. If you look at it regularly im sure rec…

I draw a lot to figure out engineering details. I used to make beautiful drawings in diagramming software (draw.io and the lil). But man, it took a lot of time. Now I scribble on printer paper unless it’s something I plan to share.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#89

Post by fugaziboutit »

Havoc wrote: post #20

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. It's not unlike what people like PG say about writing improving thinking...it's the being forced to go from fuzzy directional notions to something you can put on paper in that will stand up to critiqu…

"When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it."

- The House at Pooh Corner

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#90

Post by mc3301 »

jackyinger wrote: post #88
theendisney wrote: post #86

Something funny i discover: i had thoughts or tried to explain something decades ago and made a drawing. Some of these are just a circle with some arrows. Turns out it is really hard to make a drawing bad enough that you dont know what it is. It sometimes works better than even a written description. So you can just doodle in a notebook and tell yourself you've written it down. If you look at it regularly im sure rec…

I draw a lot to figure out engineering details. I used to make beautiful drawings in diagramming software (draw.io and the lil). But man, it took a lot of time. Now I scribble on printer paper unless it’s something I plan to share.

Fellows devs at my company think I'm strange, but I always have a cheap coil-notebook. It has diagrams, notes, doodles, minutes, checklists, mostly not even in order. I try to remember to write the date at the top of each page.

I just counted, 11 notebooks (b5, 60 pages) in two years, so just about a new notebook every 2 months.

Funny thing is, coworkers will now ask to use my pen and paper to flesh-out something together, as I'm certain it's the only paper and writing utensil in the building.

And yeah, draw.io or even an ipad with a whiteboard app aren't good replacements for me.

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