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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#231

Post by kachnuv_ocasek »

betaby wrote: post #206
FuckButtons wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not like this is a new tactic, china has been very successful at wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies in many sectors of the economy.

> wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies The same tactic is in the USA. Like every new AI datacenter has ~10 tax waiver + explicit subsidies + favorable loans, etc, etc.

Not even mentioning the many instances where US corporate interests were defended and advanced by US military force abroad.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#232

Post by sanghoonio »

WarmWash wrote: post #175
beepbooptheory wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand it's supposed to be obvious to all of us, but maybe just for fun, can you follow through? What is the next step in the nefarious plan?

[flagged]

So people in countries adversarial to the US, or even demographics at risk domestically like illegal migrants have nothing to worry about dumping their info OpenAI or Anthropic servers? But the Chinese are going to spy on people using open weight models running on private or third party servers? Do you hear yourself? Do you have any grasp of theory of mind at all? Is your vision of Chinese "ethnonationalism" white people picking cotton? Is that what you are afraid of?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#233

Post by NietzscheanNull »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #199
theplumber wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you keep a straight face when you say IP theft while OpenAI and Claude have their entire business based on IP theft?

This is a commonly-repeated trope. Full of all the emotional zeal of AI Doomerism, but no accompanying evidence.

How about the $1.5 billion settlement Anthropic agreed to pay authors and publishers:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/technology/anthropic-sett...

Several consolidated cases against OpenAI:

https://www.bakerlaw.com/in-re-openai-inc-copyright-infringe...

And these plaintiffs are representative of only the best-organized and most well-funded of those who believe that these companies stole their data. Countless independent writers, artists, and other individuals whose data was ingested unknowingly and without consent lack the resources to litigate claims, but that doesn't change the fact that their copyright was violated in service of for-profit LLM/GenAI model training. It's not a trope, it's just what happened.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#234

Post by CPLX »

torginus wrote: post #169
CPLX wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Before anyone starts talking about the free market, there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy. Unilateral s…

Why do people say this? You can get a Shanghai-made Tesla Model 3 with CATL batteries in the US yet somehow, if a Chinese car, made with Chinese components in Chinese factories were to enter the market, the would spell doom for the entire US auto industry.

You just explained it. You can get a Chinese made car in China.

That's kind of the point. They are smart enough to protect and support their domestic industries. We also have to do that, it's necessary for sovereignty.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#235

Post by lbreakjai »

betaby wrote: post #206
FuckButtons wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not like this is a new tactic, china has been very successful at wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies in many sectors of the economy.

> wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies The same tactic is in the USA. Like every new AI datacenter has ~10 tax waiver + explicit subsidies + favorable loans, etc, etc.

As always, the US has a government removing red tape to foster innovation, while China has a regime, unfairly picking winners, to hurt and subvert the West.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#236

Post by gypsy_boots »

WarmWash wrote: post #106

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!"

Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on a fraction of the infrastructure?"

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#237

Post by kingofthehill98 »

rib3ye wrote: post #223
Vasbarlog wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not China that is threatening to annex Greenland though.

When it comes to annexation, China doesn't threaten, they just invade and extinguish.

Yeah, I remember clearly when China invaded/bombed: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Panama, Syria...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#238

Post by kachnuv_ocasek »

guywithahat wrote: post #209
Vasbarlog wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not China that is threatening to annex Greenland though.

There's nothing wrong with the US buying greenland, which has been done for territories around the world? The US has a long history of protecting individual freedoms, China does not. There's an irony that you're aware of the misgivings of the US because we have free speech protections. You're probably less aware of the misgivings of the EU because they regularly arrest citizens for speech, and no awareness of the iss…

How long has the history of the US protecting the individual freedoms of non-white or non-rich citizens been?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#239

Post by alienbaby »

dakolli wrote: post #225
sarjann wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text autocomplete can write code, carry out actions (tool calls) and launch cyber attacks. It very much is a matter of national security.

You're actually delusional if you think cyber capabilities of nation states have increased by the development of llms..

Peak of skill and capability, perhaps not, for now. But the ability to automate and discover relevant weaknesses at a greatly increased rate definitely counts as increasing the threat nation states can present.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#240

Post by lbreakjai »

WarmWash wrote: post #205
Barrin92 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so, with the Snowden leaks we learned the extent of American digital espionage in Europe, the US government puts pressure on Europe to prevent taxation or regulation of American business and even European citizens have become the subject of mistreatment in American airports based on their digital profiles. We can enter China visa free. Given that you're big on data and don't like emotions, what have the Chinese m…

Selling Russia weapons to help kill Ukrainians, buying Russian oil/gas to help kill Ukrainians. But free AI models or something, right?

The other option is the one that kills palestinians, and we don't even get free models out of it.
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