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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#271

Post by martinpw »

techpression wrote: post #75
afarah1 wrote: post #36

Driving a rental car in Germany almost makes me cheer for the ongoing bankruptcy of their auto industry. It really needs a full reset at this point. Sad thing is EU law mandates for a modem in the car as well as intrusive driving aids that actually make driving less safe by constantly driving your attention away from the road[1]. So there is no hope to get a minimally decent car in Europe in the near future, unless a…

Whoever came up with the idea that the car should beep loudly even close to the speed limit has clearly never driven a car. The best way to silence it is to constantly be over the speed limit or well below.

Was in an Uber in Korea recently traveling from the airport and the car literally beeped every 30 seconds for the entirety of the one hour drive with what presumably was a speed limit warning - a beep AND a verbal message. Seemed to be only marginally over the limit. Drove me insane. I don't know how the driver dealt with it - he must experience it all day every day.

I guess you just filter it out after a while but it definitely makes me think I need to do some research before getting a new car any time soon.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#272

Post by hydrogen7800 »

nicce wrote: post #231
moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

> I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now this, which ultimately - since I am a GrapheneOS user - makes me completely cancel my plans. Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind.

>Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind.

"Some nerd couldn't use their nerd phone."

What incentive does a dealer have to know or care about this?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#273

Post by summm »

HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #173
torginus wrote: post #151

Isn't this for the same reason why you can't do banking on an unlocked bootloader phone? There's no way to verify the integrity of the system, and any malicious app can just grab your banking credentials or enable criminals to unlock and drive away with your car.

GrapheneOS requires a locked bootloader and supports using deveice attestation via the generic attestation functionality in the Android Open Source Project. Play integrity is an anticompetitive tool that ignores this, and artificially limits itself on GrapheneOS. It is not due to any incompatibility.

The GrapheneOS supporters are not on our sides, apparently. The seem to actually like remote attestation. They just don't like that they are not in on Play Integrity. But what is won if attestation includes official GrapheneOS releases but would still otherwise be exactly the same evil stuff that takes control of the user's device?

I still am hoping that at one point they understand the full consequences of remote attestation. There are some signs they start to notice, but it's slow...

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#275

Post by teamonkey »

shevy-java wrote: post #182

I am annoyed that the EU allows this in the first place, that car manufacturers sniff off data from people. And, on top of that, block open source alternatives. To me this smells like a cartel. Why is the EU not doing anything?

It is. There are incoming EU regulations about consumers needing free access to their data that is sent to a cloud server on their behalf. That doesn’t mean all the functionality of an app needs to be implemented.

My feeling is that this change plus the recent API lock for a few days ago are in fact part of a reworking to enable this EU legislation.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#276

Post by virgilp »

gib444 wrote: post #253
afarah1 wrote: post #36

Driving a rental car in Germany almost makes me cheer for the ongoing bankruptcy of their auto industry. It really needs a full reset at this point. Sad thing is EU law mandates for a modem in the car as well as intrusive driving aids that actually make driving less safe by constantly driving your attention away from the road[1]. So there is no hope to get a minimally decent car in Europe in the near future, unless a…

> constantly driving your attention away from the road Absolutely agree! After a few minutes you realise you forgot to disable one of the 'features' and then get distracted trying to do that. Lane keep assist is broken and dangerous Auto high beam assist is broken and dangerous Auto cruise control is broken and dangerous Collision detection-avoidance is broken and dangerous (thinks you're going to crash quite often i…

How are all these "broken and dangerous"? In my car (Volvo) they work rather well. Perhaps sign detection sometimes misses signs, but so do I so I can't fault it. The others though, I rank them all somewhere between "genuinely useful" and "absolutely awesome"

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#277

Post by Hikikomori »

moooo99 wrote: post #244
Hikikomori wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else was on your list? Haven't looked seriously but WV, kia, Polestar has been on my list.

I've test driven pretty much all VW brands (that fall within my budget) and thus far, the Cupra Born has been my favorite. I have test driven the Kia EV4 and EV3, but I am not a huge fan. I do not enjoy the look of the EV3 and while the EV4 was a nice drive, I kept bumping my leg against the direction selector (which is below the handle for the wipers; But this is a huge nitpick since I am fairly tall, so not really…

Been mostly interested in ev6. Just compared insurance cost and Polestar 2 was almost double. Born was also 50% more than kia ev4. Maybe different in the us if you are there?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#278

Post by LollipopYakuza »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #272
nicce wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now this, which ultimately - since I am a GrapheneOS user - makes me completely cancel my plans. Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind.

>Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind. "Some nerd couldn't use their nerd phone." What incentive does a dealer have to know or care about this?

As a dealer, it would be frustrating especially because it is so silly. Basically, if they report any of this to HQ, it would be along the line of "I am losing the sale of a whole car over some stupid app block".

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#279

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

plqbfbv wrote: post #265
torginus wrote: post #151

Isn't this for the same reason why you can't do banking on an unlocked bootloader phone? There's no way to verify the integrity of the system, and any malicious app can just grab your banking credentials or enable criminals to unlock and drive away with your car.

> There's no way to verify the integrity of the system, and any malicious app can just grab your banking credentials or enable criminals to unlock and drive away with your car. I get that Google doesn't want to be sued for failing to protect its users and indirect users of the mobile phones sold by other companies, but for advanced users there should be an option to update the signing keys used by the bootloader, so…

Note that Fairphone does not provide software updates for anywhere near as long as they claim, and using a modern device with 7 years of support, such as a pixel or iphone, will be far better in the long term. Fairphone is basically e-waste out of the box.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#280

Post by brikym »

michalhosna wrote: post #129
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons You should definitely reevaluate how you constructed your list. VW has a history of being scummy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal ) and their ICE cars are notorious for being unreliable compared to the Japanese car-makers. To be fair, EVs do change the equation a bit, but given their scandal plagued past, there's no way I woul…

> their ICE cars are notorious for being unreliable compared to the Japanese car-makers. I always read this online, but my personal experience in EU doesn't match that at all in quite a sample of people and cars over the last ~15 years. At least not for older cards. The reliability after 100k km seems to be somewhat similar. The repairability of VW-group stuff in 3rd party services is soo much better and cheaper. The…

It depends which market you're in.
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