Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#501

Post by breakyerself »

nine_k wrote: post #382
analog31 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a better way, that's not the Chinese way? What I mean is more centralized oversight over research priorities, metric-driven rewards, and preference for political favorites?

What made places like Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, IBM Research, etc thrive? What happened to that mechanism, and can we have it back?

Those were all ultimately for profit companies. You can only get so far with basic science if some bean counter is looking for a return on investment in the near future.

What those companies did is notable, but I think you are overselling their contributions to science. We've gotten way more scientific advancement from publicly funded science. There are private companies allowed to do R&D all over the world. Publicly funded independed science research is what has set the US apart.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#502

Post by awesome_dude »

tensor wrote: post #435
realityfactchex wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She has cried a lot in the last one year for the mess science research has become. At least it's a good thing that we're able to a) observe and b) talk about and c) acknowledge openly(ish) that academic, mainstream, practicing "science" (including as visible to microscopists and all that entails) is currently a "mess". This allows us to, eventually, address those issues (or die trying!). Science used to move at a p…

No. AI is not doing science. And also no, science is not being held back by "pearl clutching" and "unwillingness to let brilliant non-science geniuses in." While there are a lot of problems with how the journal model of publication has evolved over time, and AI has actually made that problem far worse, not better, the real threat and "mess" that science is in currently in the US is from the administration. Science in…

It disheartens me a great deal to see how the US (in particular, but they are not alone) has turned its back on good science, largely, but not exclusively, on the back of populist politics.

Science has had waves, and people have over pushed its advances (for profit) and hidden some of its shortcomings (we can point to a lot of problems) and is going through a massive reckoning where its influence is being curtailed.

Probably (IMO) the biggest problem science has, is that people don't realise that the key to its strength isn't that it finds all these advances/truths, but that it's comfortable with the idea that we really don't know anything.

Fundamentally science says - this is the best understanding we have of the given data, AND, reiterating that this is what people miss, science absolutely accepts that a better understanding or fresh data can at any moment in time change things.

That confuses most people, they like their understanding of the world to be concrete.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#503

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

littlekey wrote: post #423
twothreeone wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which really tells you more about the state of mind of people asking that question. What kind of person isn't curious about the puzzle of their own existence, or the nature of the physical reality they live in (and yes, by "being curious" I mean "being willing to put a tax dollar amount to them")?

>What kind of person isn't curious about the puzzle of their own existence A person who struggles to put food on the table and a roof over their heads, for one.

What a sleight of hand to suggest that science funding gathered from taxes is impacting the ability for poorer Americans to afford their food. No wonder politicization of science funding is so successful on the right: it’s so rhetorically intoxicating.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#504

Post by rwyinuse »

Aurornis wrote: post #434
simojo wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, Spain has their own set of politics worth losing sleep over; perhaps as an expat you won't be as attached though.

Most places have their own politics. What differs is how often they come up. As a foreigner you're usually spared the involvement in those discussions because people think you're not interested and don't want your outsider opinion anyway. People also embed themselves in different communities when they move anywhere, even to a different city or state in the same country. It's a clean reset. It doesn't always last fore…

Politics is everywhere, but the state of US politics today is exceptionally bad by Western world standards. I hate the government in my country, but their corruption and incompetence is nothing compared to the Trump administration.

In that sense most EU countries are a positive upgrade.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#505

Post by doctorpangloss »

wholinator2 wrote: post #455
doctorpangloss wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's so much that talented people are being locked out, as much as it is that communities everywhere, not just industry, are requiring a level of people skills that academic people lack but nonetheless thrive without.

Academics do have a reputation that way, but only the 100% safe, tenured ones. The majority of academics are required to have a strong level of communication just to get their grants accepted. Imagine if, on top of working your normal job at maximum efficiency, you then had to make a presentation to the government every year about why you and everyone that depends upon you deserves to eat, while the government you ma…

do you think communication skills and people skills are the same thing?

i like academics, don't misunderstand me.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#506

Post by jorblumesea »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #428
simojo wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, Spain has their own set of politics worth losing sleep over; perhaps as an expat you won't be as attached though.

Most American ex-pats don't really understand that the thing that makes ex-pat life so attractive is that, for most of people's lives, being American in a foreign country has traditionally conferred a wide range of benefits (this is most clearly exemplified by the way Americans living in a foreign country refer to themselves as "ex-pats" not "immigrants"). The ex-pat solution assumes American exceptionalism as its fo…

expat is usually synonymous with fire/retire early. most people move to spain or portugal and see their purchasing power multiply.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#507

Post by andrewla »

okeuro49 wrote: post #231

> But arbitrary cancellations and delayed disbursements are unprecedented. And justifying them on the basis of politics—prohibiting, for instance, grants that include language referencing diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI)—was unheard of until now. It is odd how removal of DEI is framed as being political, when it is the other way round. DEI schemes were deeply political, and depended on who can claim to be the bi…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#508

Post by halostatue »

epistasis wrote: post #340
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans voted to bring the country back to the 1950's and the plan is working perfectly

In the 1950s the US had lots of foreign scientists. In fact if the US hadn't had its huge influx of foreign scientists fleeing the Nazis, who knows where we'd even be today.

You're not wrong, but let's not forget that some large number of scientists (cough Werner von Braun cough) were fleeing prosecution as Nazis.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#509

Post by rbtprograms »

ArmadilloGang wrote: post #337
lmf4lol wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where to?

My family is looking at Missouri to Spain. Why Spain: Expat communities, cost of living, friendly visa options, beautiful climate. Why leave: Sick of U.S. politics and the way it directly and indirectly affects us and how difficult it is to escape from it - it’s a major point of conversations with family and friends, it’s on the local radio, local subreddit, local social media pages, etc. Also, I have over $7k in per…

americans pretending they aren't immigrants by using the term expat always cracks me up

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#510

Post by itsamario »

dwa3592 wrote: post #307

My wife operates an optical trap (a sophisticated microscope, she uses it for studying gene/dna physical properties) and she's pretty good at working with that instrument. The number of people good at working that microscope are in the ballpark of 2000 (+- 1000) in the world! She has cried a lot in the last one year for the mess science research has become. We are moving out of the country at the end of August.

When words lose their meaning, people lose their freedom. -Confucius

I've read that asia is leading the world in scientific discoveries and therefore Mandarin gets the naming rights. That's privilege and the reason English is fleeting

Post reply on HN