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U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

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Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#491

Post by nikanj »

twothreeone wrote: post #343
nikanj wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the real partisan question is ”should the US fund studying the black holes”, not the actual science question

Which really tells you more about the state of mind of people asking that question. What kind of person isn't curious about the puzzle of their own existence, or the nature of the physical reality they live in (and yes, by "being curious" I mean "being willing to put a tax dollar amount to them")?

A person who’s been told all the people doing the science look down on them. Partially true, too, based on how I’ve heard people talk about ”dumb redneck trump voters”

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#492

Post by convolvatron »

adornKey wrote: post #196
pastel8739 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re clearly referring to something specific, what is it?

[flagged]

the experimental framework for finding out absorption spectra goes back like 100 years and is basically high school level science. not only that, we have quantum chemistry models that predict empirical results from atomic configurations that are 20+ years old and match that empirical data to a very high level of accurany. there is plenty of ambiguity to attack in climate modeling, but you chose the most settled and fundamental thing to poke at.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#493

Post by epistasis »

geodel wrote: post #488
epistasis wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1950s the US had lots of foreign scientists. In fact if the US hadn't had its huge influx of foreign scientists fleeing the Nazis, who knows where we'd even be today.

Then there would be someone else who'd come. Considering they came to US and not to other places out of Europe. It would mean conditions were favorable in US.

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, as I can't parse what you mean by "there would be someone else who'd come." Getting the world's 100 greatest plumbers won't fundamentally change the course of the course of the US economy for the better, getting the world's 100 greatest physicists to come to the US certainly puts the US on a path towards world economic domination.

Point is, the 1950s had highly international science, and the US welcomed international scientists and benefited hugely from them.

The US in 2025 and 2026 is extremely hostile to international scientists and is hurting greatly from it.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#494

Post by tombert »

ryandrake wrote: post #463
iAMkenough wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the 20-something’s at DOGE proved anything last year, the keyword “black” associated with grant funding probably put the research on a list of DEI cuts.

I don't know why you're getting downvoted. This is exactly the kind of expertise and competence we have in the Administration right now. It is totally believable that they would do a substring search for "black" and "trans" and defund black hole research and transistor science.

It is a little impressive how actively bad they are at this.

I haven't had that much respect for Elon since he called the cave diver a pedophile, but something I didn't realize until the 2025 administration started is how lazy everyone involved with it is. As far as I can tell, no one in that administration has, at any point in their life, ever examined any of their own opinions or actions, or looked up the "why" of any of the programs that they declared as "wasteful".

That or they're just idiots. Tough to say.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#495

Post by breakyerself »

okeuro49 wrote: post #231

> But arbitrary cancellations and delayed disbursements are unprecedented. And justifying them on the basis of politics—prohibiting, for instance, grants that include language referencing diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI)—was unheard of until now. It is odd how removal of DEI is framed as being political, when it is the other way round. DEI schemes were deeply political, and depended on who can claim to be the bi…

Just having keywords associated with DEI could get a project defunded. Thee government isn't just defunding liberal projects. Look at the millions being thrown out on ocean monitoring because the Trump admin thinks global warming isnt a problem if you don't monitor it.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#496

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

MisterTea wrote: post #417
WarmWash wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is a populist doing populist things, including attacking the intellectuals. Conservatives have been basically purged from academia over the last 30 years, which frankly was a pretty dumb "victory" to celebrate, because now they voted in a dumb gorilla that is just smashing things as revenge.

> Conservatives have been basically purged from academia over the last 30 years, Any citations on this?

It’s a pretty commonly repeated theory amongst far right / reactionary “thought leaders”. They call it the “Long March Through the Institutions”. I think the comment you were responding to was ironically referencing it.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#497

Post by lovich »

setgree wrote: post #366

I work at a research lab that was previously supported by an R01 grant that did not get renewed last year. It’s been tough and the staff (including me) have been moved to part-time employment. However, it also made us put ourselves out there and fundraise, which led to new connections and new opportunities. So yes, it’s been chaotic, but like Petyr Baelish says, chaos is a ladder.

Petyr Baelish got stabbed to death while on his ladder, I don’t think that’s a good analogy

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#499

Post by Invictus0 »

> Political operatives at the NIH passed around lists of words that grants weren’t allowed to use—in either applications or existing, funded projects.

Well well well. If it isn't the pot meeting the kettle

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#500

Post by andbberger »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #369
stanford_labrat wrote: post #316

the recent drama about science funding to me highlights one of the main problems with our grant-based distribution system: which is that it is unsurprisingly very frail to fast-moving changes in government and society at large. science as an apparatus often works on timescales that are decades, not 4 year political cycles. so rapid pendulum swings are particularly dangerous to the pursuit of science as a whole. you c…

> a system where funding is guaranteed and investigators are allowed absolute academic freedom. think something along the lines of each principle investigator gets $Xmillion to study their research topic in perpetuity without fear of reprisals or sudden funding cuts. you can do this, you just need to find a chump who is willing to spend the money.

this exists and the chump is howard hughes
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