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Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

thesignalist.io

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Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#31

Post by felooboolooomba »

slwvx wrote: post #27
Havoc wrote: post #20

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. It's not unlike what people like PG say about writing improving thinking...it's the being forced to go from fuzzy directional notions to something you can put on paper in that will stand up to critiqu…

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. I often construct full sentences in my head. And have conversations with my mental model of some other person. In full sentences

> I often construct full sentences in my head

I've only ever heard that associated with schizophrenia, but I don't even know if that's true or not.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#32

Post by cadamsdotcom »

This is so true!

1. Talking or writing requires thoughts to be sequenced so they come out in a way someone can follow

Thinking in your head won’t organize your thought.

2. Talking or writing to someone invites feedback and forces you to make sense, fit in socially etc.

Chatting with an AI or writing in your diary won’t refine or improve your thoughts.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#34

Post by bogrollben »

jsbg wrote: post #33

Everyone inherently knows this, that's why they reach out to others when stuck on a bug (see also rubber-ducking). But why is it so hard to convince individuals and organizations of the benefits of pair programming?

rubber-ducking and pair programming have wildly different investment costs

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#36

Post by assimpleaspossi »

This proves nothing but, in my earlier days, I'd come home with something on my mind from work and tell my wife about how I couldn't get something to work the way I wanted. She had no clue what I was talking about but she'd offer up clues and suggestions to which I would try to explain to her how things actually worked.

Somewhere in that process it would lead to a solution that I would bring to work the next day!

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#37

Post by apparent »

It's simpler than this. Explaining a question/issue to someone involves going back to basics and covering all the foundational info that a third party would not have. When thinking alone, you gloss over this, and may not realize that a foundational assumption is incorrect. When you are forced to explain every step explicitly, these errors or gaps can become apparent without any intervention by the listener.

I have my younger kid explain each math problem to me before she submits it on Khan Academy. My older kid thinks in her head how she would explain a problem before turning in a test. It's a good habit to form.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#38

Post by joe_the_user »

Havoc wrote: post #20

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. It's not unlike what people like PG say about writing improving thinking...it's the being forced to go from fuzzy directional notions to something you can put on paper in that will stand up to critiqu…

It seems like you saying that people who can do alone what most people do alone, have an advantage. Sure but seems more like an agreement with the article than otherwise.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#39

Post by unfitted2545 »

felooboolooomba wrote: post #31
slwvx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the out loud or someone listening / reacting matters at all here. Suspect it's entirely this: >The thought that was comfortable as a vague impression has to become a sentence, and sentences have structure. I often construct full sentences in my head. And have conversations with my mental model of some other person. In full sentences

> I often construct full sentences in my head I've only ever heard that associated with schizophrenia, but I don't even know if that's true or not.

I think I've got this from growing up with a narcissist. Thoughts are constructed and seemingly endlessly whittled to try and create a sentence that can avoid getting belittled.

It's hard to talk in groups, because you have to have a sentence mentally critiqued by 3/4 people in turn, so the topic has usually changed before you can say your piece.

Re: Why thinking out loud with someone beats thinking alone

#40

Post by IAmBroom »

dh2022 wrote: post #2

OMG - strong vibes to Einstein crediting Michele Besso, his colleague at the Swiss Patent Office, with helping him discussing some concepts in the special relativity paper: see at the end of the paper https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

Interesting.

I saw a Facebook copypasta piece that claimed that Einstein's first wife came up with many or most of his ideas, and never got credit because of sexism. No proof whatsoever, other than she was a mathematician and physicist.

But "it could have happened!" is more important than even a microshred of evidence for highly emotional, online topics.

This anecdote nicely pokes a hole in that conspiracy theory: he was thoughtful enough to share credit with a layman work associate, but (supposedly) not the most important woman in his life - that seems even less likely.

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