Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 633 posts

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#101

Post by Scoundreller »

17383838 wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Yeah, that was the argument against Japanese car makers, too. A shitty system needs destroying sometimes. Competition from Toyota/Honda was critical in making US auto makers up their game. It is terrible…

[dead]

Pokémon dildo factory should retool easily into a track-and-destroy-jeeps drone factory

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#102

Post by CPLX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #94
CPLX wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing cause and effect.

No, they're not. Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. The US mainland was untouched. It had a massive leg up against the competition.

> explain America's world-wide industrial dominance.

> Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt.

Well yeah. Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy.

Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#103

Post by l5870uoo9y »

Is DeepSeek really behaving different than other Chinese companies? Intellectual theft is ongoing and has been ongoing for decades. Besides security risks and foul play, it is impressive by just how much DeepSeek undercuts OpenAI and Claude. DeepSeek charges $0.87 per million output tokens compared to $50 for Fable and $30 for GPT-5.5.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#104

Post by ceejayoz »

CPLX wrote: post #102
ceejayoz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're not. Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. The US mainland was untouched. It had a massive leg up against the competition.

> explain America's world-wide industrial dominance. > Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. Well yeah. Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do…

> Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy.

That industrial dominance came largely during the war, and was made possible by the fact that they weren't being bombed while it scaled up.

There's a huge element of geopolitical luck involved in the rise of the US.

> Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go?

Horribly! I think they're much more prepared for such a thing.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#105

Post by CPLX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #99
CPLX wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy, and second of all they're still one of the top 5 most militarily powerful countries in the world. I don't even know what point you're making? Did they bail out Chrysler? Which side of the analogy are they even on?

> What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? They had more of that industrial capacity you're talking about than Ukraine, more tanks, more armaments, more weaponry. It still didn't let them win. Because the quality matters too. > First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy… I have some awkward news about the US in recent years.

This is just an example of the fundamental nature of asymmetric insurgent warfare and the nature of proxy conflicts. It's not like Vietnam was more powerful than the US economy either. You seem confused.

In an all-out existential battle Ukraine would have been wiped off the map in the first 20 minutes by nuclear weapons. This isn't an actual contest of industrial might versus industrial might.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#106

Post by WarmWash »

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models.

The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#107

Post by bitmasher9 »

vitalyan123 wrote: post #55
bitmasher9 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why some Capital Interests want to blacklist DeepSeek in the US is so that you are forced to buy Claude/GPT/Gemini, which will feed revenue into an industry that requires revenue (or it’s a big problem). The reason why some Capital Interests don’t want to ban DeepSeek is so companies that utilize AI have more options, and running your own DeepSeek cluster acts as an independent cost comparison for enterpri…

[flagged]

Do you really think the truth has anything to do with the power of a narrative?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#108

Post by CPLX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #104
CPLX wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> explain America's world-wide industrial dominance. > Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. Well yeah. Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do…

> Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. That industrial dominance came largely during the war, and was made possible by the fact that they weren't being bombed while it scaled up. There's a huge element of geopolitical luck involved in the rise of the US. > Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial…

Well then we agree, that their industrial policy is working a little better than ours. Which was the original point.

They don't let western businesses overwhelm their domestic industry at all. For us to let them do it to us would be unilateral disarmament and suicide.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#109

Post by ceejayoz »

CPLX wrote: post #105
ceejayoz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? They had more of that industrial capacity you're talking about than Ukraine, more tanks, more armaments, more weaponry. It still didn't let them win. Because the quality matters too. > First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy… I have some awkward news about the US in recent years.

This is just an example of the fundamental nature of asymmetric insurgent warfare and the nature of proxy conflicts. It's not like Vietnam was more powerful than the US economy either. You seem confused. In an all-out existential battle Ukraine would have been wiped off the map in the first 20 minutes by nuclear weapons. This isn't an actual contest of industrial might versus industrial might.

> This is just an example of the fundamental nature of asymmetric insurgent warfare.

Plus overconfidence, and outdated Russian tactics and equipment.

The US would be wise not to fall in the "our army bigger" trap too.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#110

Post by cortesoft »

curt15 wrote: post #7
_aavaa_ wrote: post #2

> Anthropic said it identified a campaign by DeepSeek and two other Chinese AI labs to illicitly extract capabilities from its Claude AI platform to improve their own models Oh, won’t someone think of the poor mass copyright infringers.

"illicitly" implies a law that is being violated. What law?

Illicit isn’t just a synonym for illegal.

It can mean “forbidden by laws, rules, or established moral customs”

So it can be illicit and legal.

Post reply on HN