Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 633 posts

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#71

Post by wagwang »

maxglute wrote: post #69
wagwang wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just copy the chinese playbook and allow entry if you are willing to hand over ip.

US note remotely capable of doing a China playbook which is: _OLD_ IP. In exchange for allocating cheap land, building cheap factories/infra, staffing with cheap technical labour etc etc... the IP sharer just sits back and collect checks. The Chinese playbook actually offers value US (and west in general) not capable of providing.

We're kind of doing it with the tsmc fabs, but yea, there are civilizational problems in the west which goes beyond cheap resources, talent, and labor.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#72

Post by arjie »

reisse wrote: post #66
mananaysiempre wrote: post #62

So... anybody who was hoping for CXMT (or YMTC) to maybe cause RAM or flash prices to maybe drop, maybe just a bit, pretty please, can go pound sand? (YMTC of course is already on the Entity List.)

They probably will, but not for US customers.

It’s a fairly liquid global market. I find it hard to believe that DRAM manufacturers will be able to sustain a premium if prices drop ex-US.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#74

Post by dvduval »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #53

IMHO, models by US companies are the biggest security risk so I'm fine with using models on this "blacklist."

Part of the security risk also is the number of different models. I’ve been tempted to try some other models, but how many do I want to give access to SSH or even my repo? Obviously there are ways to work with this, but it’s gonna run through some people‘s heads.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#75

Post by dyauspitr »

epolanski wrote: post #32
jmyeet wrote: post #12

The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…

Chinese have a wider outlook on it. Politically they believe AI belongs to humanity, which is why they are basically the only ones left publishing research in the open. That's probably part of their socialist nature. But also a financial one. They believe that models are commodities, that you can swap one for the other and that the only thing that matters are the applications built upon them. So they want to make sur…

I think you’re assigning magnanimity to a competitor that is lagging behind and has every, state backed incentive to capture the market the only way they can. By making the models dirt cheap to access. If the roles were reversed you wouldn’t see open source versions of Chinese models. Much like you don’t see them open sourcing their blade battery design.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#76

Post by CPLX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #43
17383838 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

> automotive platforms are a key military asset All the more reason not to save companies that can't compete in the global space. What good is a jeep that the Chinese laugh at?

You think people laughing is an important metric versus having an integrated industrial facility capable of producing vehicles in large quantities?

Maybe start at the beginning. Where do you think power comes from in the world? I'll give you a hint. It's not the ability to construct narratives.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#77

Post by theevilsharpie »

CPLX wrote: post #42
stickfigure wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese don't make these kinds of idiotic mistakes, which is how they have amassed the power, wealth, and influence that they have. I generally agree with most of what you said but not this. China's chief advantage is having a billion people. On average, they aren't that wealthy or powerful. And their leadership makes plenty of idiotic mistakes - look at their real estate market.

That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is. Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off. We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were t…

> We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well.

I think there's another world event that happened in that time span that might better explain America's world-wide industrial dominance.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

CPLX wrote: post #76
ceejayoz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> automotive platforms are a key military asset All the more reason not to save companies that can't compete in the global space. What good is a jeep that the Chinese laugh at?

You think people laughing is an important metric versus having an integrated industrial facility capable of producing vehicles in large quantities? Maybe start at the beginning. Where do you think power comes from in the world? I'll give you a hint. It's not the ability to construct narratives.

> You think people laughing is an important metric…

I think if you're gonna argue "preserving the auto industry is a national security issue" you have to address the fact that an auto industry that relies on protectionism to avoid being competitive with the rest of the world will probably not be very effective at national security.

Otherwise, you wind up like Russia in Ukraine - people laugh at your failed efforts.

> an integrated industrial facility capable of producing vehicles in large quantities

Large quantities of vehicles don't do much good if those vehicles are shitty compared to the opposition's. Iraq's army under Hussein was one of the largest on the planet at one time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting

"The nine M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers and 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses."

"In doing that the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank position of thirteen T-72s. The lightly armored Bradleys, each equipped only with a 25-mm cannon and two TOW missiles, are intended for reconnaissance, not direct engagement with armored tanks. Despite a misfire, and having to reload the launchers in the face of the enemy, the two Bradleys destroyed 5 tanks before help arrived."

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#79

Post by jtbayly »

MaxPock wrote: post #73

Becoming such a sore loser. Historians will probably look this as the most shameful period of the American empire.

Because they have held off on adding these companies to the list in order to avoid increasing tensions with China?

ETA from the first paragraph of the article: "The U.S. has held off... to avoid escalating tensions with Beijing."

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#80

Post by brendoelfrendo »

wbl wrote: post #65
krunck wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. I think that has more to do with controlling narratives that the USG doesn't like.

Ever see a tiktok about may 35?

I don't use TikTok, but a cursory search shows that there's a #tiananmensquare tag that has a few thousand videos, including many about the protests and Tank Man. So while I haven't seen a TikTok about it, someone has.
Post reply on HN