U.S. science is in chaos • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#341

Post by _heimdall » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:36 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #299

okeuro49 wrote: post #231

> But arbitrary cancellations and delayed disbursements are unprecedented. And justifying them on the basis of politics—prohibiting, for instance, grants that include language referencing diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI)—was unheard of until now. It is odd how removal of DEI is framed as being political, when it is the other way round. DEI schemes were deeply political, and depended on who can claim to be the bi…

It's not odd. If the institution of it is political, the removal of it is therefore also political. It is not, however, based on who can claim to be the biggest victim. It is based on a simple statistical analysis of demographics.

The statistical analysis is step one, but those stats are (or were?) used as proxies for quantifying a persons victimhood. I dont actually think "victim" is quite the right word here, but the OP used it and it fits well enough.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#342

Post by xp84 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:36 PM UTC

drnick1 wrote: post #324

IsTom wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money.

> I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money. If you’d like to do your part against climate change, you can start by walking everywhere today, avoiding heating and cooling your home, and never flying a plane again. These are changes I’m not willing to make, so the issue isn’t just inconvenient for the wealthy—it’s inconvenient for ever…

Indeed. File under "bitter pills to swallow."

It's so easy to sit in an air-conditioned house, with our 2-day delivered Amazon stuff, and just make pronouncements like degrowth, etc.

Meanwhile about 99% of the humans who live in places that haven't fully industrialized are either working feverishly to industrialize like us, or are trying to find a way to move to an industrialized country because of how incredibly hard it is to live where they are.

I also suspect that our most committed enviro-leftists genuinely believe that their lifestyle is already fully aligned to their values -- they don't even own a car, take transit everywhere! They pay an extra $25 for carbon offsets when they fly, and they "recycle everything"! They live in a blue state that mandates high levels of "clean energy" in the power grid.

They do not ask themselves where the factories are built that make the wind turbines or solar panels, what powers their buses and trains and makes the cement that the streets are paved with. What powers the diesel trucks that bring their organic produce and manufactured soy products to Whole Foods for them.

All this isn't to even comment on where climate change actually is on the 2 axes of "Non-issue ----> existential threat" and "Completely avoidable if we start now ----> Entirely outside human control." I'm just saying that I suspect nearly every Western climate change activist would be filled with regret if we started making every societal decision to truly optimize for climate concerns to the exclusion of all other priorities.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#343

Post by twothreeone » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:36 PM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #303

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #19

> whether there are black holes at a redshift of 10 or not is not a partisan issue. Anything that depends on a basic understanding of the scientific process, and resulting scientific facts is absolutely a partisan issue right now.

And the real partisan question is ”should the US fund studying the black holes”, not the actual science question

Which really tells you more about the state of mind of people asking that question. What kind of person isn't curious about the puzzle of their own existence, or the nature of the physical reality they live in (and yes, by "being curious" I mean "being willing to put a tax dollar amount to them")?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#344

Post by wredcoll » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

drnick1 wrote: post #320

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #33

My friends from grad school who went on to become professors tell me that not only did their grant funding dry up, but they were unable to follow through on hiring many of the grad students they had planned to hire, since the students came from foreign countries and faced new visa restrictions. So the money for science is gone, the people to do to the science are gone, and the institutions continue to not support the…

> they were unable to follow through on hiring many of the grad students they had planned to hire Most of the "research" done by graduate students and even tenured faculty as a whole is laughable at best. For every lab that produces groundbreaking output, there are countless humanities graduate programs that do nothing but produce and spread left-wing propaganda.

What a depressing view of the world.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#345

Post by pstuart » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

Tangurena2 wrote: post #339

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans voted to bring the country back to the 1950's and the plan is working perfectly

Back to the 1930s. People in the 1950s were convinced that the nuclear family was a disaster and the leading cause of divorce/poverty.

Huh? That seems counter to my perceptions. Any links to expound upon that?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#346

Post by iAMkenough » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

helterskelter wrote: post #333

nikanj wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the real partisan question is ”should the US fund studying the black holes”, not the actual science question

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they thought it was a DEI thing.

If the 20-something’s at DOGE proved anything last year, the keyword “black” associated with grant funding probably put the research on a list of DEI cuts.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#347

Post by counters » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #310

Am scientist. We needed change. This seems like a stupid way to get change, but it's better than nothing. Academia was not doing well pre-Trump. The DEI infection ran deep - and it still does. Complete nonsense was getting funded in the social sciences and cognitive science / psychology. It was really tragic. And now all these institutions are saddled with personnel debt. The morons they hired during the DEI moral pa…

> This is a blunt instrument, yes. But things were going very poorly overall, and we needed a shake-up.

You do understand that what's happening isn't merely a "shake up", right? It's the coordinated dismantling of structural components of America's innovation economy in ways that will take decades to recover from, if it all (can't do much if emigrants take their talents to China instead of the USA).

Strong "cut off your nose to spite your face" vibes. Hope that works out for you. It's not working out for many of my colleagues, especially early-career scientists at federal labs who are hemorrhaging from the system, often moving completely out of science altogether. Great return on investment we're getting for all those GRFPs!

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#348

Post by tinyplanets » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:41 PM UTC

brorfred wrote: post #84

MemoryHoleHQ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just to show how DEI works at NASA, I share a DEI plan we wrote for a proposal just before the change of administration. This plan was rated highly by the agency. Which parts are "appealing discriminatory practices"? Inclusion Plan Both PIs and collaborators recognize the negative effect that systemic barriers have on academia and the importance of facilitating the full participation, belonging, and contribution of d…

Don't feed the trolls... MemoryHoleHQ is not arguing in good faith.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#349

Post by wredcoll » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:42 PM UTC

drnick1 wrote: post #324

IsTom wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money.

> I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money. If you’d like to do your part against climate change, you can start by walking everywhere today, avoiding heating and cooling your home, and never flying a plane again. These are changes I’m not willing to make, so the issue isn’t just inconvenient for the wealthy—it’s inconvenient for ever…

What a pointless comment.

"Climate Change" isn't caused by flying a plane, it's caused by flying thousands of planes every day. This is a real distinction because the individuals you are talking to do not have any meaningful way to affect the 40,000+ flights per day. Just as a random example.

If your next response is going to be "well if everyone stops taking flights that would affect them all", then yes, congratulations, you've discovered what laws are and how democracies work.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#350

Post by wredcoll » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

xp84 wrote: post #342

drnick1 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money. If you’d like to do your part against climate change, you can start by walking everywhere today, avoiding heating and cooling your home, and never flying a plane again. These are changes I’m not willing to make, so the issue isn’t just inconvenient for the wealthy—it’s inconvenient for ever…

Indeed. File under "bitter pills to swallow." It's so easy to sit in an air-conditioned house, with our 2-day delivered Amazon stuff, and just make pronouncements like degrowth, etc. Meanwhile about 99% of the humans who live in places that haven't fully industrialized are either working feverishly to industrialize like us, or are trying to find a way to move to an industrialized country because of how incredibly har…

> I also suspect that our most committed enviro-leftists genuinely believe that their lifestyle is already fully aligned to their values -- they don't even own a car, take transit everywhere! They pay an extra $25 for carbon offsets when they fly, and they "recycle everything"! They live in a blue state that mandates high levels of "clean energy" in the power grid.

You did it, you torched the strawman.